Was the T2i a mistake?

zaathrus wrote in post #10662410
Hardly! I bet that most of your photos will print out just fine! Just remember to run "unsharp mask" on them after conversion to TIFF, JPEG, whatever. I tend to use a radius of 4, amount of 0.4 and threshold of 0 for SWMBOs 7D. You'll notice a huge difference!

How do you do this in Aperture 3?

@zaathrus:
Found it. For others who are interested: https://photography-on-the.net …hread.php?t=730​218&page=2
Very interesting stuff. Thanks for mentioning it, zaathrus.

@NothingRemains10: Sorry for hijacking your thread. I promise I won't do it again

Jim_T wrote in post #10660658
Just a note.. Most of the 'killer' shots you see on this forum are as a result of post processing and not because the superiority of the camera and or lens.

Worth being quoted.

The OP's pics look fine, and can get better with time.

I have a T2i, and it does well at high ISO. Obviously not as well as a $1600 camera, but good.

awelex wrote in post #10662668
@zaathrus:
Found it. For others who are interested: https://photography-on-the.net …hread.php?t=730​218&page=2
Very interesting stuff. Thanks for mentioning it, zaathrus.

@NothingRemains10: Sorry for hijacking your thread. I promise I won't do it again

Thanks, that was a very good read.

NothingRemains10 wrote in post #10662241
I just always kept the iso at 100 because I had reader that the lower the iso the better since there is less noise. Is is f/8 or so the best with shooting all wildlife?

Yes, there is less noise at ISO100 than ISO400, BUT you need to take into account the ENTIRE "exposure triangle"

Say you're in Av mode at f/5.6 and ISO100. You get 1/50s. You should know by now that is is WAY too slow (especially at 400mm). Increasing the ISO to 400 would give you 1/200s. ISO800 gets you to 1/400s. Yada Yada Yada...

I'd rather have a noisy picture than a blurry picture.

Bryan Peterson's "Understanding Exposure" is a good book that explains some of the basics of photography, including how ISO, f/stop, and shutter speed all work together. The BEST part of the book is that it's QUITE a bit cheaper than a 7D.

Knowledge is WAY cheaper than gear, and the payoff is much greater...

awelex wrote in post #10662431
Thanks. I know ETTR. But nowhere does it say that you should use the highest ISO possible. In fact, one of the goals of ETTR is to get the highest possible S/R ratio, which would be thwarted by shooting with the highest ISO possible.

Using the highest ISO possible does make sense, but only in the context of a fixed absolute exposure, such as manual. If you are setting the Av and Tv values yourself, then the highest ISO that does not blow highlights will give the least noise. It also works this way if you are comparing, say, shooting at ISO 100 @ -1 EC, vs 200 straight, vs 400 @ +1 EC; if the latter does not blow highlights, it is the winner, because it gives the least noise. If you are using Av- or Tv-pri or P modes, then of course, if you use the same EC at all ISOs, the lowest ISO will give the least noise.

At ISOs above 1600, things are different, though, and noise is only related to absolute exposure, not exposure *at* an ISO (histogram exposure). It is only down at the lowest ISOs where relative (histogram) exposure is very important for noise, vs absolute exposure.

John Sheehy wrote in post #10663854
Using the highest ISO possible does make sense, but only in the context of a fixed absolute exposure, such as manual. If you are setting the Av and Tv values yourself, then the highest ISO that does not blow highlights will give the least noise. It also works this way if you are comparing, say, shooting at ISO 100 @ -1 EC, vs 200 straight, vs 400 @ +1 EC; if the latter does not blow highlights, it is the winner, because it gives the least noise. If you are using Av- or Tv-pri or P modes, then of course, if you use the same EC at all ISOs, the lowest ISO will give the least noise.

At ISOs above 1600, things are different, though, and noise is only related to absolute exposure, not exposure *at* an ISO (histogram exposure). It is only down at the lowest ISOs where relative (histogram) exposure is very important for noise, vs absolute exposure.

Yes, that's what I gathered from the thread. I'm eager to try that out.

However, I don't believe ETTR is a suitable method for the OP anyway, as things can get pretty hectic in wildlife photography...

awelex wrote in post #10665469
Yes, that's what I gathered from the thread. I'm eager to try that out.

However, I don't believe ETTR is a suitable method for the OP anyway, as things can get pretty hectic in wildlife photography...

Like I said, at higher ISOs relative exposure is not important for noise - I use HTP and auto-ISO in manual mode for shooting with my 7D, 100-400 with 2 1.4x TCs (manually focused), and unless I point the camera at bright sky, there is no chance of the ISO dropping below 800, most of the time 1600 or higher, where HTP protects highlights, but does not have a detrimental effect (as it does at low ISOs).

Where has this "shoot at the highest ISO possible" come from? Thats dreadful advise.

By all means suggest shooting at "the right" ISO, but that could be 100 or it could be 12800, everything depends on the situation. Personally I never go above 800 and rarely venture higher than 400 on my 30D.

Well, NR10 let's review...
1. For handheld shooting, you should use a shutter speed NO SLOWER than 1/focal length...400mm lens shoulld be shot with a shutter speed of 1/400...some people will tell you that that rule was for 35mm bodies and since the body you have has 1.6x the field of view of a 35mm camera, you should multiply the rule by 1.6...in the case of the 400mm that would be a minimum of 1/640 or so
2. INCREASE your ISO setting to one that allows you to use that shutter speed....but...
3. use an F-stop smaller than wide open...that will give you more depth of field/focus...more in focus in front of and behind the point of focus...You may have to INCREASE ISO to allow you to use F8 or F11 since the smaller F-stop will let in less light (like the faster shutter speed).....
4. You do not need to use the fastest ISO that the camera permits...for most daylight situations, ISO of 1000 will allow you to use 1/500 and F8 (that would be the exposure for a cloudy day or light shade)...if it's darker than that increase the ISO to 1600 before using a slower shutter speed or wider aperture....
5. you will not likely see much noise in a full frame image...yes, if you crop a small section and look at it as an 8 x 10, you will see some, but in photoshop you can still smooth it out a bit...
6. Learn more about RAW processing in that PoTN forum where I posted this recently

about sharpening:
AFter sharpening your RAW image to a level 3-5 in DPP...
For sharpening In Photoshop here's a basic rule regarding USM to follow that might help...
Keeping in mind 2 of the variables, Amount and Radius...(excluding threshold)...and with a starting point of 300% and .3 for each respectively...

Adjusting amount is more subtle than radius...
If the image has few lines and edges, and more texture and tone, like a close-up portrait,
you can use .3 for Radius but you may want to lower to Amount to 200% (adjustments seem take affect I think in 100s: 100, 200, 300...up to 500) or even 100...
You may then increase Radius to .4, .5 or even 1.0 depending on the texture/blocks of tones...this will increase the texture's sharpness nicely...but it ill also increase high ISO noise easily seen in such tonal blocks lacking detail, so be careful there...

But...in the reverse situation, if the image has few solid blocks of tone and texture, but instead has a lot of edges and lines, such as scenics with a lot of trees, (branches and leaves), then you DON'T want high Radius because it will cause ghosting of those edges...in this case you want to LOWER radius to .2 or .1 perhaps, and increase Amount to 300, 400 or 500...this more nuanced sharpening will not cause those edges to break up...

Good luck....

This is a great thread for the inexperienced like myself. Many thanks for those taking all the time to reply with advice.

What I find myself doing more and more is leaving the ISO setting in auto and just dealing with shutter speed and aperture. Then I go back and see what actual ISO is being dialed up and maybe decide to tweak that as well based on results. When I start out thinking about all three variables it is too easy to turn taking photos in to a session of tail-chasing (and not the good kind ).

mpix345 wrote in post #10666460
This is a great thread for the inexperienced like myself. Many thanks for those taking all the time to reply with advice.

What I find myself doing more and more is leaving the ISO setting in auto and just dealing with shutter speed and aperture. Then I go back and see what actual ISO is being dialed up and maybe decide to tweak that as well based on results. When I start out thinking about all three variables it is too easy to turn taking photos in to a session of tail-chasing (and not the good kind ).

+1. I have to agree. Thanks to everyone who took time to reply to this thread. Thanks awelex for asking the right questions.

I have been having the same issues and asking the same question about my 500D. I have also wondered whether I should have gotten the 7D instead. Thanks for asking the question and thank you to everyone for your very informative responses. I have learnt a lot from this thread!

Lowner wrote in post #10666202
Where has this "shoot at the highest ISO possible" come from? Thats dreadful advise.

By all means suggest shooting at "the right" ISO, but that could be 100 or it could be 12800, everything depends on the situation. Personally I never go above 800 and rarely venture higher than 400 on my 30D.

It comes about as a misunderstanding of HAMSTTR.

The HAMSTTR thread never said to shoot at the highest ISO possible by the camera. What the article/thread said was that after the photographer determines the appropriate shutter speed (to stop or capture motion) and aperture (for DOF), if you have extra, uneeded highlight headroom (based on your review of the histogram), you should push your ISO gain up (using whole stops) until you are just below clipping, if possible. Then pull the exposure down in post.

Lowner wrote in post #10666202
Where has this "shoot at the highest ISO possible" come from? Thats dreadful advise.

By all means suggest shooting at "the right" ISO, but that could be 100 or it could be 12800, everything depends on the situation. Personally I never go above 800 and rarely venture higher than 400 on my 30D.

No, not as high as the camera can do. Unless you like the really high ISO grain!

awelex, glad you found the thread - I couldn't remember any more than that - and I've only just logged on!

If one is going to use Av or Tv or P in wildlife shooting, one needs to know what the metering modes you use will do in every situation - that way, you aren't going to be unpleasantly surprised! For example, I know that my 5DII (say) will underexpose by ~1/3 - 2/3 stop on evaluative in certain conditions. I therefore use +exposure compensation (in Av) to make sure that it will expose properly (and then up it by ~1/3 stop). In DPP, I can then do any final adjustments.

Manual mode is often far better for wildlife (IMO) - apart from when the beggars are moving quickly!