Printing is going to do my head in, nothing matches!

I've always swore I would stay away from printing my own images, instead getting a lab to do it.
Unfortunately a recent job meant I had to print my own so I bought an IP4700 and it's worked very well for what I needed it for.

Now I'm trying to print some of my existing photos and it's doing my head in.

I'm working in LR3 and CS4 on a calibrated 21inch IBM Trinitron.

Printing from LR, if I let LR colour manage, using the canon profile for the canon paper and ink in the canon printer I get a dark printed image.
Letting the printer colour manage I get a dark printed image with a really, really bad red tint.

Printing from CS4, with the photo soft proofed and photoshop doing the colour management I get a really dark printed image with a slight red tint.


Adjusting the colours in the printer driver only sends the tint the wrong way. The only I've found of getting an accurate print is to pull out lots of red saturation in CS4 and then adjust the brightness of the mid tones with levels.
But the results are not always consistent and each photo requires it's own adjustments.


I've read as many of the threads I can find, and I know the monitor isn't set to bright, I calibrated it to the dark side of the calibration. Gamma and w/b are set correctly.


The question is, is there something wrong with the printer, or am I missing something critical in the process?

When you say, calibrated to the dark side, what luminence value ?

You have to understand that when viewing a monitor, you are seeing transmitted light, much like looking at a slide projected on a wall. A print you view with reflected light along with paper rarely being 100% white.

I would recommend lowering the luminance on your monitor and not expect the same contrast etc. as the print but you can get them very close.

I don't know anything about that printer having had an Epson 2200. The 2200 had some very good profiles, eventually, supplied by Epson.

I have since dumped my printer and use a local pro lab. I couldn't be bothered doing my own prints, anymore.

Been there, done that.

Frustrating, ain't it?

What with color management, softproofing, and all it sounds like you've done your research and are trying everything right, so folks are limited on what they can offer.

The only thing I can suggest is what bo has, luminance value. Don't know about Canon printers, but with my Epson I have to set the lum at 90 which is rather low considering most manufacturers say around 120 is norm.

What's your lum value?

As to the tint (and maybe the dark) as opposed to googling the problem or the printer, have you researched the calibration tool and/or application you use? Is there any reported problems with that?

Maybe a bad cartridge? Clogged head?

If the printer checks out and you are using good paper profiles, I'd next consider the monitor profile.

But paper profiles can be suspect. I had to have a custom profile made for my Epson R2880 for Epsons own Premium Glossy! These are not expensive and while I'd not suggest jumping that way until you have exhausted all other options, its a viable solution.

It boils down to "how good is your monitor profile" and "how good is your printer profile". The darker print suggests that your monitor is probably too bright (OR you're not viewing the print in good light -- you will not get the same results holding the print next to the monitor). The red tint suggests that your printer profile isn't good.

Canned printer profiles MAY or may not be all that good. I strongly suggest a custom profile for YOUR printer and YOUR paper and YOUR ink.

Moppie wrote in post #10665568
Printing from LR, if I let LR colour manage, using the canon profile for the canon paper and ink in the canon printer I get a dark printed image.
Letting the printer colour manage I get a dark printed image with a really, really bad red tint.

LR2?
What profile?
If you let the printer manage color, yet still get a dark print / really bad tint, something is wrong.
Have to ask: Canon ink and paper?

Moppie wrote in post #10665568
Printing from CS4, with the photo soft proofed and photoshop doing the colour management I get a really dark printed image with a slight red tint.

Does the PS print match the first LR print? (LR color managing?)

Do you have an older version PS you can try?
What OS / printer driver?

I was unable to print from CS4 / OSX 10.4.11 until Epson updated the driver for its R2880... PSCS2 worked well though using the same settings.

Moppie wrote in post #10665568
Adjusting the colours in the printer driver only sends the tint the wrong way. The only I've found of getting an accurate print is to pull out lots of red saturation in CS4 and then adjust the brightness of the mid tones with levels.
But the results are not always consistent and each photo requires it's own adjustments.

Good reason to not go there unless you absolutely cannot get it to work.

Moppie wrote in post #10665568
I've read as many of the threads I can find, and I know the monitor isn't set to bright, I calibrated it to the dark side of the calibration. Gamma and w/b are set correctly.

What calibrator & settings?

I am having the same problem as my ip 4700 is printing with a little more brown/yellow than richer blues/green in foliage; versus what my HP's printed and as labs I use. Portraits look great however.

Anyhow, I found this article which may help you more than myself as much is greek to me.


"...The color reproduction was my frustration as I could never quite get the accurate colors with the bundled ICC profiles. After much, much investigation, internet search and frustrating trials and errors, I have success!
Canon's cryptic coding system for their ICC profile does not help.... and is the key. Once you decript it and actually figure wich profile goes with which paper, it finally works brilliantly.
So, for reference, and to save other users some time and ink, here is compiled together the solutions I have found, from various sources of information:
If you use Lightroom, or Photoshop, make sure you TOTALLY DISABLE the printer driver's color matching (see instruction manual on how to do this).
Then, use the following ICC profiles from within Adobe products (make sure you specify that Lightroom/Photoshop manage colors).
Code Description Quality Setting
MP1 Matte Photo Paper 1
PR1 Photo Paper Pro (I and II) 1
PR2 Photo Paper Pro (I and II) 2
PR3 Photo Paper Pro 3
SP1 Photo Paper Plus Glossy 1
SP3 Photo Paper Plus Glossy 3
SP4 Photo Paper Plus Glossy 4
SG1 Photo Paper Semi Glossy 1
SG3 Photo Paper Semi Glossy 3
GL1 Photo Paper Glossy (or Photo Paper Plus Glossy II) 1
GL3 Photo Paper Glossy (or Photo Paper Plus Glossy II) 3
PT1 Photo Paper Pro Platinum 1
PT2 Photo Paper Pro Platinum 2 ......"

http://forums.dpreview​.com …rum=1003&messag​e=33861505

O-kay, I'm at work and don't have access to the info I found way back when I was printing with the i9100, but...
One of the things I recall being a huge issue was "double color managing"
ie: there were settings in the print driver that would load on top of the color management from PSCS (I print from PS always)
Colors would end up super dark, and tinted way too far one way or another.

Working this stuff out was indeed a nightmare,.

I do not think it is a printer problem as this is far too common an issue with just getting your settings remotely correct.

Let me see if I can find the thread here that got me on my way to being sorted.

O-kay, check this out;
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=29530

And this;
http://www.steves-digicams.com …-with-canon-printers.html

Ralph III wrote in post #10666666
MP1 Matte Photo Paper 1
PR1 Photo Paper Pro (I and II) 1
PR2 Photo Paper Pro (I and II) 2
PR3 Photo Paper Pro 3
SP1 Photo Paper Plus Glossy 1
SP3 Photo Paper Plus Glossy 3
SP4 Photo Paper Plus Glossy 4
SG1 Photo Paper Semi Glossy 1
SG3 Photo Paper Semi Glossy 3
GL1 Photo Paper Glossy (or Photo Paper Plus Glossy II) 1
GL3 Photo Paper Glossy (or Photo Paper Plus Glossy II) 3
PT1 Photo Paper Pro Platinum 1
PT2 Photo Paper Pro Platinum 2 ......"

Different issue, since in this thread, Canon papers are used..

Those profiles are meant for Canon paper, using Canon ink in your Canon printer.
In your case, problems arise from not being calibrated, using different paper, and maybe more

Have a read in the link from my sig: There are a few "step by step" links in there on color managed printing.

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.

The calibration is done with a Spyder 2 Express, so no option to set the luminance.

And yes, Canon Ink on Canon Photo paper, using the Canon Profile.

Ralph III, I managed to dig up that same post when I first got the printer. You would think Canon could have used a more logical naming sytem

I have however managed to solve the brightness issue.
Turns out the driver was set to "Dark". Changed it to normal and the prints look much better, very, very close to the monitor (allowing for the difference between the two mediums).

I also did a few more tests.
The red actually looks like slight over saturation of any red in the image, mostly around skin tones.

It may simply be a problem with the way Canon did the profile??

Any other ideas?

Moppie
I'm working all day tomorrow (I KNOW!! Saturday & all !!)

But if you've got a few hours to spare on Sunday and a few sheets of paper, I can come over with the Spyder 3 Studio & can re-do your monitor & set the screen luminance & build a profile for your printer.

Mark Vuleta wrote in post #10671856
Moppie
I'm working all day tomorrow (I KNOW!! Saturday & all !!)

But if you've got a few hours to spare on Sunday and a few sheets of paper, I can come over with the Spyder 3 Studio & can re-do your monitor & set the screen luminance & build a profile for your printer.

Mate!

I'll get the beer ready

Moppie wrote in post #10671863
Mate!

I'll get the beer ready

Sounds like a plan, I'll give you a call Saturday night (before the Rugby)