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Thread started 09 Aug 2010 (Monday) 09:28
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STICKY: How to photograph a high school Senior

 
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Grumpy_one
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Oct 08, 2012 10:55 |  #9466

umphotography wrote in post #15092040 (external link)
KInd of self explanatory. Your using your cameras light meter to get the exposure, TV mode lets you set the shutter speed to what your gate speed is for a flash. I choose 1/160 because its safe. Shooting into the area with TV mode at 1/160, the camera will set an exposure and give you the correct aperture reading,,, switch it over to manual to that setting

The ND filter will bring down the ambient on your subject and the sky or area that you shoot at, That ambient reading is what your light output should be thats hitting the subject. you can chimp and if the light looks a bit hot,,and it might, slightly adjust light output to get a look that you like-- works everytime

I understand about taking a reading in av or tv and using manual. The method I was/am curious about is getting your light output to match ambient light setting. A practice I'm unfamiliar with. I was wondering if you meter the light output until it matches the ambient. New to using light meter and was confused on the actual steps your taking to do that besides chimping. There are times when there's not enough setup time and chimping can take time away and end up loosing the shot (kids getting distracting and walking away and having to corral them back to the spot and golden hour is gone). This is a process I will definitely have to practice. Adding a ND filter is completely new to me and maybe something I should become familiar with. I've done some outdoor stuff, but matching light output to ambient is something new for me. Can you explain "gate speed" in relation to flash? Sometimes I feel like such a noob. Thanks.


I shoot Canon's
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SoCalTiger
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Oct 08, 2012 11:45 |  #9467

Grumpy_one wrote in post #15094323 (external link)
I understand about taking a reading in av or tv and using manual. The method I was/am curious about is getting your light output to match ambient light setting. A practice I'm unfamiliar with. I was wondering if you meter the light output until it matches the ambient. New to using light meter and was confused on the actual steps your taking to do that besides chimping. There are times when there's not enough setup time and chimping can take time away and end up loosing the shot (kids getting distracting and walking away and having to corral them back to the spot and golden hour is gone). This is a process I will definitely have to practice. Adding a ND filter is completely new to me and maybe something I should become familiar with. I've done some outdoor stuff, but matching light output to ambient is something new for me. Can you explain "gate speed" in relation to flash? Sometimes I feel like such a noob. Thanks.

In this context, "gate speed" = "flash sync speed". Or in other words, the maximum shutter speed which can be used with his camera + flash combination. For your 7D, the camera's flash sync speed is 1/250.


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Grumpy_one
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Oct 08, 2012 12:10 |  #9468

SoCalTiger wrote in post #15094506 (external link)
In this context, "gate speed" = "flash sync speed". Or in other words, the maximum shutter speed which can be used with his camera + flash combination. For your 7D, the camera's flash sync speed is 1/250.

I get 1/320 with my pocket wizards. Thanks for the explanation. Never heard it called gate speed before, or I just dismissed it. In a previous post, 1/160 was mentioned as "safe". Safe against what? Sorry for the noob questions in this thread, if the mods want, I'll remove them and ask in more appropriate thread. Thanks


I shoot Canon's
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JakAHearts
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Oct 08, 2012 12:36 |  #9469

No worry about "noob" questions. If you choose too high a shutter speed, its possible to get a dark band across the image (if that area of the image is lit by flash) due to the shutter bring partially in front of the sensor when the strobe goes off.

http://actionphotoscho​ol.com/flash-sync-speed/ (external link)


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apixelintime
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Oct 08, 2012 12:45 |  #9470

And given that this is a "how to" thread - I wouldn't worry about it....


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Grumpy_one
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Oct 08, 2012 13:27 as a reply to  @ apixelintime's post |  #9471

Thanks. I start to get the bands at 1/400. I'll post my latest senior effort here shortly. It was my first real senior shoot. Unfortunately I don't have those pics with me at the moment. Cheers and thanks!
edit: I understand flash sync, just never seen it referred to as "gate speed".


I shoot Canon's
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Mtn4Mike
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Oct 08, 2012 13:28 as a reply to  @ apixelintime's post |  #9472

"Safe" to me means less than sync speed but fast enough to not worry about hand holding. And please let's not start another discussion about flash freezing everything regardless :lol:

I normally want to shoot wide open so to balance ambient I usually set my camera to Av mode, 2.8, and meter with my camera. Assuming it gives me a shutter speed in the 125-250 range I set it in manual and take a test shot. Then adjust flash output to taste.

Let's say you ended up at 1/160. If you chimp and would like to kill the ambient a little more bump your shutter to 1/200 or 1/250. You "may" have to bump the flash a bit too. If you want more ambient drop your shutter speed, or you can bump your ISO up too.

If my camera tells me it wants a shutter speed faster than sync I add a ND filter, and if that's not enough I add another ND or a CPL. Although I only have speedlites so I avoid this strong of daylight if possible.

Now I am no expert but I have come to understand this principle and "try" to apply it properly. Please correct me if I'm wrong here.


Mike
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Dave ­ Jr
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Oct 08, 2012 14:01 |  #9473

Mtn4Mike wrote in post #15094893 (external link)
"Safe" to me means less than sync speed but fast enough to not worry about hand holding.

Actually, in the context discussed above, safe means not getting curtain shadow. For example, even though a 5dII has a max synch speed of 1/200th, when used with certain triggers, such as skyports, Yongnuo 602's, etc...1/160th is the fastest shutter speed you can use to get a completely clean frame, due to signal delay.


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bobbyz
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Oct 08, 2012 14:43 |  #9474

Whenever I am using ND filters it is sunny, so I start with sunny 16 rule. ISO100, f16 gives 1/100. Assuming 1/200, it gives f11. Most cameras can do 1/200. This is your ambient.

Now add flash. Adjust flash power or the distance from flash to the subject till you get f16 exposure on the subject. Light meter makes it handy. In this case I am assuming sun at the back, flash on the front of the subject.

Now say you got 3 stop filter. f11, 1/200 becomes f4 (f11->f8, f8->f5.6, f5.6->f4) and 1/200. Simple shoot at f4.

Now want more ambient, slower the ss.

Want less ambient, you need to increase flash power (assuming you have it) or move flash closer again.


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bobbyz
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Oct 08, 2012 14:47 |  #9475

Mtn4Mike wrote in post #15094893 (external link)
Let's say you ended up at 1/160. If you chimp and would like to kill the ambient a little more bump your shutter to 1/200 or 1/250. You "may" have to bump the flash a bit too. If you want more ambient drop your shutter speed,

Correct

or you can bump your ISO up too.

Wrong

Why, as increasing ISO will increase both flash as well as ambient, so ratio of flash/ambient reamains the same.


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Mtn4Mike
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Oct 08, 2012 15:12 |  #9476

bobbyz wrote in post #15095202 (external link)
Wrong

Why, as increasing ISO will increase both flash as well as ambient, so ratio of flash/ambient reamains the same.

Thank you for clarifying. It would have been better to say to check flash output (by chimping in my case) after any modifications to ambient.


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SoCalTiger
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Oct 08, 2012 15:44 |  #9477

Grumpy_one wrote in post #15094599 (external link)
I get 1/320 with my pocket wizards. Thanks for the explanation. Never heard it called gate speed before, or I just dismissed it. In a previous post, 1/160 was mentioned as "safe". Safe against what? Sorry for the noob questions in this thread, if the mods want, I'll remove them and ask in more appropriate thread. Thanks

Becareful about curtain shadow at 1/320. In my experience, if a camera is rated for 1/250, you can sometimes get away with 1/320 (especially if it is on the hot shoe directly) but there is some shadowing. Take a picture of a blank wall @1/320 with no ambient light and see if one edge of the photo is slightly darker. Under normal conditions with ambient if you are only using flash to fill this may not be noticeable.


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Grumpy_one
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Oct 08, 2012 15:50 as a reply to  @ Mtn4Mike's post |  #9478

So to get proper ambient reading and matching flash output reading, I will be doing these steps:

1) using my camera in TV with desired shutterspeed preset 1/160-1/320 (or whatever max snyc speed allowable), point to background (direction of shoot) and get aperture reading. Put camera in M mode with above settings

2) using light meter with flash and adjust flash output until I achieve setting acquired in step above.

I'm going to try this tonight and get back because I know I'll have questions. Still getting familiar with light meter, only used it indoors to this point.


I shoot Canon's
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Oct 08, 2012 15:56 |  #9479

You could also start with your shutter speed at less than max, do exactly the same thing and then after you've set your flash exposure properly bump your shutter speed up to darken the background or bump your shutter speed down to lighten the background. You'd have to worry about blur if you slowed it down too much however.




  
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umphotography
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Oct 08, 2012 16:16 |  #9480

bobbyz wrote in post #15095202 (external link)
Correct


Wrong

Why, as increasing ISO will increase both flash as well as ambient, so ratio of flash/ambient reamains the same.

Correct:lol:--Provided you have the correct iso for the shot in the first place

Heres how to do it w/o a light meter

This is why i like to use my cameras meter--- its pretty dam accurate. You can shoot into a scene in TV mode and its going to tell you the aperature for that shot..Take the shot... chimp... how does it look...Kind of dark ??? Raise your iso untill it looks good to you...does it look to bright and your iso is already at 100 ISO.. toss on an ND filter to bring down the lighting or better yet, have a camera that lets you drop your iso below 100...Take it again,,, does it look good,,,fill the front of your subject with the light from your flash until its balanced. Its that simple.

Example.. shoot into the sunset with your camera in TV mode and see what the aperature reading is on the test shot......lets say its f/9 at 1/160..sky looks great but everything else is too dark.....how are you going to fix this....well droping the shutter speed from 1/160 to say something like 1/60 will help a ton but probably start to blow blow out the sky-----circular solves this

Or

You could take an average--- i do this all the time. shoot into the darker part of the scene.....lets say its F/2.8 @ 1/125 at 100 ISO and the sky is F/11.......what if you droped your brightest aperature (F/11) to say something like F/4.0 so that there was some nice detail in the darker scene. Now you stack a couple of circulars to bring down the sky. At that point your details in the darker part of the scene will go very dark. But you can play with your camera settings, bump your iso from 100 to 2oo,, drop your shutter a bit and get a nice over all look w/o blowing out your sky,,,, now fill in your subject with light. Its a traingle. all 3 work settings work together tp get a nice light on your sensor. Remember.. you have to have detail in the brightest part of the scene or your sunk

For sunsets,,im constantly chasing light for the last 10 minutes. I may be at F/4.o @1/160 and 100 ISO for the initial setting and at the end of the 10 minute cycle im at F/4.0 @ 1/60 and ive raised the iso to 320 or 400 chasing the light...some of my best shots happen this way...as you raise the ISO,,you chimp and drop the power for your light output.


Mike
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