So I've got a 16-35 II and I want filters...

jacobsen1 wrote in post #10709671
When you get into GNDs and NDs they're so much cheaper to make that getting them ONCE as a panel saves you money.

The trouble with the panel ND's though is that 2 out of the 3 most common variations (the 1 and 2 stops) are virtually useless so all you can get is the 3 stop or the venerable Big Stopper (only available from Lee... if you have the patience) which doesn't give you a lot to choose from.

If only they'd at least do a 6 stop as well instead of making us stack two 3 stop filters while you may want to use a GND and polarizer as well. That's getting pretty crowded in that holder.

Because I already owned a B+W 10 stop ND, and I'm not willing to go the Vari-ND route, I've ordered a B+W 3 and 6 stop to complement my set. Depending on the focal length (and subsequent risk of vignetting) I'll either attach the Lee holder to the ND, or handhold my GND's.

tourist, thanks for all the info. I should have been clearer, I bought the UWA 77 and it is indeed designed VERY well. It's just hard for me to spend $60 on it -vs- $30 for the normal one w/o and documentation of exactly how wide a lens needs to be to NEED it.

rvdw98 wrote in post #10713726
Because I already owned a B+W 10 stop ND, and I'm not willing to go the Vari-ND route, I've ordered a B+W 3 and 6 stop to complement my set. Depending on the focal length (and subsequent risk of vignetting) I'll either attach the Lee holder to the ND, or handhold my GND's.

I'm actually in the same boat. I have the same 77mm screw on 10-stop and just stack the GND rig in front of it and crop/clone out the corners if I NEED to shoot that wide. It works, but I'd prefer a panel because it's easier to compose w/o it then slide it in. Removing the filter each time you move is a PITA. I do use liveview though which helps.

The other trick with NDs though, is use your GND filters. Even hitech's 4x5s have enough that's solid ND to slide all the way in and it'll work. I say this because they make a 4-stop GND so there's your 4-stop ND. But yes, your holder will get crowded....

jacobsen1 wrote in post #10713822
I'm actually in the same boat. I have the same 77mm screw on 10-stop and just stack the GND rig in front of it and crop/clone out the corners if I NEED to shoot that wide. It works, but I'd prefer a panel because it's easier to compose w/o it then slide it in. Removing the filter each time you move is a PITA. I do use liveview though which helps.

Yep, liveview is definitely a life saver until Lee wises up and gives us an ND that we can actually put to good use. The Big Stopper is nice, but it often slows down the shutter speed so much, that the effect looks overcooked to my eye. I prefer to retain some detail in those moving bits.

jacobsen1 wrote in post #10713822
The other trick with NDs though, is use your GND filters. Even hitech's 4x5s have enough that's solid ND to slide all the way in and it'll work. I say this because they make a 4-stop GND so there's your 4-stop ND. But yes, your holder will get crowded....

I've thought about this (I think I read about "abusing" GND's this way, I can't remember where) but I don't use any GND's above 3 stops, and a 4-stop is too close to the 3-stop I already have to buy it just as a makeshift ND. So that still leaves me wanting for a higher density panel ND.

I swear they do it on purpose so we buy all their inbetweens and then still have to fork out for the real deal.

Just to chime in, I'd go with Lee over the Cokin as well, except if you get a good deal on the Cokin.

The Cokin's aren't that bad, actually. I got an entire set, with filters, adapters for 58, 67, 72, 77 and 82, along with 3 different filters for $75 used. Can't beat that.

The amount that I use them, it's not worth it for me to update them to Lee.

Theres so much knowledge in this thread!

Hope I'm not hi-jacking.

I know that a CPL is arguably "infinitely useful" but I'm practicing landscaping (what I'm primarily interested in) and I find that I blow out the sky or over expose them more often than not. I've considered both GNDs + NDs mainly because they seem to alleviate this issue.

At this point, I'm not sure where to allocate my money. Whether to pick up a good CPL or just get the panel filters, since It seems that I can't use both without vignetting at 17mm on full frame. I'm trying to be more "creative" so I can see the panel filters benefiting, but the CPL also seems very important for deepening colors of the sky, and with reflection control, etc.


I watched some of your videos Ben and I find them very helpful. Hope you make more! Videos are so much better than reading about stuff because you can actually see whats being used and whats going on!

ninhja wrote in post #10719333
At this point, I'm not sure where to allocate my money. Whether to pick up a good CPL or just get the panel filters, since It seems that I can't use both without vignetting at 17mm on full frame. I'm trying to be more "creative" so I can see the panel filters benefiting, but the CPL also seems very important for deepening colors of the sky, and with reflection control, etc.

There is no definitive solution for this conundrum. Basically, you have a couple of options:

• Attach a filter holder onto a screw-in CPL and accept whatever vignetting this results in by zooming in or cropping.
  
• Buy a 105mm accessory ring (available for the Lee filter holder) and a 105mm CPL. This will vignette until about 20mm with a regular CPL and may be vignette-free all the way down to 17mm with a slim CPL. The latter is only available from Heliopan though and is substantially more expensive than the already costly 105mm CPL. You have to decide if the extra cost offsets the ability to shoot vignette-free between 17 and 20mm.
  
• Use the Lee slide-in CPL which is cheaper and easier to setup than the previous options. The downside is that when you combine this with GND's, you're essentially locked into 90 degree increments of rotation as you can't rotate the CPL and the GND's independently.
  
• Handhold your GND's in front of a screw-in CPL which is the cheapest route, but can be very inconvenient with multi-minute exposures.
  

I'm leaning towards the CPL just for a more broad range of uses. I want to be able to slow down the shutter speed to get silky water though. Not sure what I'm going to do about that.

Thanks for that rvdw98.

ninhja wrote in post #10719397
I'm leaning towards the CPL just for a more broad range of uses.

A good CPL is basically a must-have for a landscape photographer. Many of us have several.

ninhja wrote in post #10719397
I want to be able to slow down the shutter speed to get silky water though. Not sure what I'm going to do about that.

A CPL will already slow down your shutter speed by 1.5-2 stops, but that will usually not be enough. You can go the rest of the way by using (solid) ND filters. The B+W 10 stop, the Hoya 9 stop and the Lee Big Stopper are popular options here.

ninhja wrote in post #10719333
At this point, I'm not sure where to allocate my money. Whether to pick up a good CPL or just get the panel filters, since It seems that I can't use both without vignetting at 17mm on full frame. I'm trying to be more "creative" so I can see the panel filters benefiting, but the CPL also seems very important for deepening colors of the sky, and with reflection control, etc.

if you've got blown out skies you need to go with GNDs first. I also RARELY use a CP for my landscape shots... The problem is they ADD contrast to scenes. So while the reflection cutting is great, sometimes it makes water black holes. And that's darker which in effect makes the skies even brighter... So while it's a good look, and I had a setup that let me use one VERY wide, I just don't use it that much.

Also, at very wide angles (wider than 20) you can get some very weird effects on your skies with a CP. It's NOT always bad, but IMHO start with a GND.

@, rvdw98 I see, so from my understanding, I can't use a CPL when using Solid NDs too. I guess theres just no real away around this. Time to accept it haha.

ninhja wrote in post #10719414
I see, so from my understanding, I can't use a CPL when using Solid NDs too. I guess theres just no real away around this. Time to accept it haha.

No, you can combine them. I meant to say that a CPL acts as a 1.5-2 stop ND in addition to the polarizing effect.

jacobsen1 wrote in post #10719413
if you've got blown out skies you need to go with GNDs first. I also RARELY use a CP for my landscape shots... The problem is they ADD contrast to scenes. So while the reflection cutting is great, sometimes it makes water black holes. And that's darker which in effect makes the skies even brighter... So while it's a good look, and I had a setup that let me use one VERY wide, I just don't use it that much.

Also, at very wide angles (wider than 20) you can get some very weird effects on your skies with a CP. It's NOT always bad, but IMHO start with a GND.

Any advice on where I can start? I was going to go with Cokin as they were more cost efficient, but after reading your original post, I've reconsidered a little.

I'm trying to think of all the scenarios in which I would use one more than the other (CPL vs GND/ND). I think once I figure that out, it should help me in making a better decision. I want to get what I would use most.

rvdw98 wrote in post #10719418
No, you can combine them. I meant to say that a CPL acts as a 1.5-2 stop ND in addition to the polarizing effect.

Wouldn't that cause similar vignetting issues by stacking the filters? Ex: B+W CPL and B+W 10stop.

ninhja wrote in post #10719430
Wouldn't that cause similar vignetting issues by stacking the filters? Ex: B+W CPL and B+W 10stop.

That depends on several factors (focal length, filter profile, lens design). You can also opt to use a slide-in ND and CPL but unfortunately, they are only available in a limited number of densities (1, 2, 3 and 10 (Lee Big Stopper)). For most purposes, 1 and 2 stop ND's are virtually useless so that leaves 3 and 10 stops with nothing in between.

Ah... decisions, decisions...

ninhja wrote in post #10719430
Any advice on where I can start? I was going to go with Cokin as they were more cost efficient, but after reading your original post, I've reconsidered a little.

I'm trying to think of all the scenarios in which I would use one more than the other (CPL vs GND/ND). I think once I figure that out, it should help me in making a better decision. I want to get what I would use most.

When do you shoot more often? Sunrises and sets NEED GNDs. Mid day CPs are more important. For me, I use my GNDs all the time and my CP occasionally. But it's different for different subjects really.

if you go with GNDs, if you can afford the lee holder get it. It's MUCH nicer. For filters, cokin's are warm in color which isn't a bad thing for landscapes, but a lot of people prefer as neutral as you can get. Hitechs, then lees, then singhrays are the best. A lee holder with hitech filters seems like the best compromise if you can afford it. $200 gets you the holder, ring and ONE filter (I'd go with a .9 (3 stop) soft edge GND). The same $200 gets you the cokin set with 1 2 and 3 stop filters.

I do tend to shoot mid-day much more often because of other obligations such as school, but I do try to make it out for sun-rise/set on the weekends. Thanks for the tip!