Rethinking shooting in manual all the time...

I had an interesting discussion some time ago with a "senior" POTN poster where we argued the virtues of manual or other methods of exposure control for learning. He was strong on the advisability to learn manual so that you truly understand how the systems work and can take control when you need to.

I ended up totally agreeing because I realised that thats what I had done many years ago using larger format film cameras. Now, with the kind of pics I take I tend to use AV, but my thumb is always on the exposure compensation wheel because all that training gave me an understanding of how my camera will interpret what we are seeing.

There are times when TV is the way I'd go, when using long lenses in particular, and I often use manual because the 5D2 only has 2 stops of Ex Comp.

Seems crazy not to use the almost intelligent brain of the camera, so learn enough that your hopefully more intellibent brain is still in control.

I only shoot in bulb mode.. I used to shoot manual, but I felt I didn't have full control of the exposure.. In M mode, the 'open shutter' time is controlled by an electronic timer inside the camera and not me. What I do is put the lens cap on, then open the shutter.. I quickly remove the lens cap and the replace it. The length of time the lens cap is removed is the actual exposure time'..

But honestly, I'm kidding .. (Although they did shoot by removing and replacing the lens cap in the very old days)..

I paid good money for the automatic functions in my camera and I use 'em.. I Shoot P, Av, Tv, M and Bulb as required.. (I shoot Tv the least).

Out of interest, I actually did use Bulb last night when I could have used Manual..

We had a crystal clear sky with bright stars and a touch of the northern lights on the north horizon. I took a series of shots ranging from 10 to 20 seconds. Since it's possible to select up to 30 seconds in M mode, I could have set my 10-20 second exposures by using the exposure dial.. But instead, I used my remote shutter release and counted "one thousand one, one thousand two" in my head... I find it far more convenient that way... And I have more 'control'

selorme wrote in post #10709931
This is easy to do.
Remove focus from the shutter button so you use the back button to focus.
Use the * button to lock the exposure. on what you want to meter on.
Focus on what you want to focus on.
Take the shot.

Even easier yet (if one doesn't want to use back-button focus): Push the * button to lock exposure, then just recompose/focus and shoot.

It's interesting to see this post. I remember arguing this at least a year or so ago. I hinted that maybe the full manual crowd was maybe a little hoity toity in with their full manual bent. I see at least one of whom I argued with now admitting that maybe M wasn't a be all end all.

I probably shoot 85% of the time in AV, 5% in TV and 10% M mode. M mode certainly has it's place and offers the greatest degree of photographer control. But like others have said, my camera is pretty darn smart, smarter than me in a lot of instances. M is reserved for flash, and difficult changing light. Otherwise it's almost always AV for me... always has been. Funny when I said this over a year ago I was pretty much roundly lambasted, this thread is a lot more honest and practical.

hpulley wrote in post #10709968
Canon introduced shutter priority first as many consumers couldn't understand apertures that well, or so they said. It was simpler for them to think of 1/focal_length or just "use about 1/500 hand held" rather than setting the aperture where small numbers are really bigger apertures...

When I bought my first Canon, which happened to be the Canon EF (which was Canons first camera which used all the FD lenses and had automatic exposure built-in), Canon claimed that automatic aperture (Tv) was better than automatic time (Av) in a camera, since when shooting fast moving things, the shutter speed affected the outcome of the image more than the aperture did. If the subject wasn't moving, you had the time to adjust the exposure time to get the aperture you wanted (there were scales which showed both the aperture and shutter speed in the viewfinder of the EF).
Another reason for Canon to implement Tv first was probably because they could. Many other manufacturers at that time didn't have such an advanced lens mount as the Canon FD, hence they simply didn't have the mechanics to handle automatic aperture.

Did anyone ever shoot with the Canon F-1 equipped with the Servo EE finder and motor drive MD? Or even the MF motor? For anything else than automated registration, where you didn't carry the camera around, that is.
You can have a look here, if you don't know what they looked like.
To see the Canon EF, you can just look at the picture to the left of my post.

I'm not ashamed to say that when I just shoot snapshots with my 7D, I often use the P mode. It gives reasonable combinations of shutter speed and aperture, and I can focus on - focus.

Remember that when you use One Shot AF and evaluative metering, you always have exposure lock, whether you like it or not. If you use only AF-ON to focus, you can also imply AE lock on half-press all the time, if you like. The cameras have a C.Fn for that.

well when you photograph people and you use flash, i dont see any better option than manual mode. I shoot OCF 90% of the time and trigger them with pocket wizards.

If i do put the flash on the camera, its with a bracket and cable. Then i will shoot AV mode and often shoot HSS and i will compensate then flash output. But I still prefer M mode, probably because thats what im comfortable doing.

Would like to get some more information about AV mode and flash use. Im seeing some wonderful results from some top noth photogs who have switched to av and ettl use

chech this guys work

http://neilvn.com …ues/5-wireless-ttl-flash/

but neil still shoots manual mode a bunch,,other swiitched to av mode.

casaaviocar wrote in post #10712652
It's interesting to see this post. I remember arguing this at least a year or so ago. I hinted that maybe the full manual crowd was maybe a little hoity toity in with their full manual bent. I see at least one of whom I argued with now admitting that maybe M wasn't a be all end all.
.

For some, the craft, if you want to call it that, is more important than the results, as a whole. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat, not that I have ever skinned a cat.

umphotography wrote in post #10713599
well when you photograph people and you use flash, i dont see any better option than manual mode. I shoot OCF 90% of the time and trigger them with pocket wizards.

If i do put the flash on the camera, its with a bracket and cable. Then i will shoot AV mode and often shoot HSS and i will compensate then flash output. But I still prefer M mode, probably because thats what im comfortable doing.

Would like to get some more information about AV mode and flash use. Im seeing some wonderful results from some top noth photogs who have switched to av and ettl use

chech this guys work

http://neilvn.com …ues/5-wireless-ttl-flash/

For flash and ETTL, there really is no difference between Av and M in how the camera works if you fix the synch speed in camera (which you can set).

Went out with a groups last night for some shots, and kept is Manual most of the time. I remembered of this thread and tried to shoot some in the other modes, specially Av, but the erratically metering behavior due to poor lighting makes it a lot harder to shoot. I think I'll keep Manual.

krb wrote in post #10710228
Regardless of what mode you are shooting in you have to be ready to shoot. av and tv give a little more latitude but you still need to have some idea about what you want. If you are in a dark club and want to preserve that look while shooting in av then you need to dial in the exposure compensation before you start looking for a shot to take. if you wait until the lens is focused before thinking about this then you might as welll be shooting in manual.

Totally in agreement with you. Yes cameras these days are pretty smart but they cannot read my mind. Putting the camera into auto mode and shooting away will give you OK images most of the time, but there are many occasions where you want to have dramatic lighting in your shot and the camera is programmer to give you OK lighting. In these cases you need to take control of the camera by either shooting in manual having complete control or using exposure compensation to override the camera. In either case, you the photographer needs to make the exposure decisions.

Cameras are getting smarter with every release, but they still cannot read my brain.

apersson850 wrote in post #10713562
...
Did anyone ever shoot with the Canon F-1 equipped with the Servo EE finder and motor drive MD? Or even the MF motor? For anything else than automated registration, where you didn't carry the camera around, that is.
You can have a look here, if you don't know what they looked like.
...

Yeah, the 1971 EE finder wasn't exactly convenient to use...

The short answer is I like M because I've used it for 50 years, I'm used to it, & I don't have to consider metering mode, EC (Exposure Compensation), EV (Exposure Value), or the color/brightness of whatever I'm shooting. And I think it's easier for beginners to learn because they can mostly ignore those factors at first.
Here's the long answer: Need an exposure crutch?

Once you reach the point where you understand EC & EV & the influence of the subject on metering, go ahead & use Av, Tv, or even P if all your images come out OK. After all, it's about the image that you come back with, not the route you took to get it, no?

PhotosGuy wrote in post #10713988
The short answer is I like M because I've used it for 50 years, I'm used to it, & I don't have to consider metering mode, EC (Exposure Compensation), EV (Exposure Value), or the color/brightness of whatever I'm shooting. And I think it's easier for beginners to learn because they can mostly ignore those factors at first.
Here's the long answer: Need an exposure crutch?

Once you reach the point where you understand EC & EV & the influence of the subject on metering, go ahead & use Av, Tv, or even P if all your images come out OK. After all, it's about the image that you come back with, not the route you took to get it, no?

To me this is the key to using any of the modes, once you understand how the meter works you can go with it when it's likely to be right and over ride it when it's likely to be wrong. Blind use of any of the modes is likely to make for a long day when post processing images.

I agree with a few of the sentiments expressed: to be able to use Av, Tv or even P well, you need to be able to use M, i.e., you need to understand the basics.

I also believe that once you are there, and you understand the various metering modes, how and when to use AE lock and exposure compensation; in most situations, (with a little advanced preparation) you can get the shot more quickly using Av or Tv. And that means less missed shots!

I can't help but think that when people make comments to the effect that Av is "auto" and that it can't possibly set the exposure as well as I can manually: that they really don't understand Av and the tools it provides.

If they choose to use M because they are more comfortable with it or prefer it; that is different and power to them. But (except for really extreme situations) Av can do everything M can do and provides just as much control. That said, I still use M pretty often..

Honestly, using Av or Tv with the EC dial is very close to using manual mode. The difference is, if something changes quickly the camera will change the settings and continue to use your EC offset while in manual mode it will of course continue to use what you set (unless you're using auto ISO in manual mode which I think defeats the purpose but that's another thread). Using manual mode or using Av or Tv with EC is all about understanding how the camera is metering, how the scene is lit, aperture, depth of field, shutter speed for blur or motion stopping, how you want the shot to turn out. Whichever exposure mode gets you the best results is the one to use but you need to understand essentially the same things to use any one of the 'creative' modes as Canon calls them. To say that you need to understand more to use manual exposure than to use aperture priority is just wrong.