Rethinking shooting in manual all the time...

hpulley wrote in post #10714107
To say that you need to understand more to use manual exposure than to use aperture priority is just wrong.

Absolutely true.

I'm not ashamed to say I use P mode most often. Next would be Tv. I shoot a lot of fast action in changing light. If the lens is long enough, the camera won't let the shutter speed go too low to freeze the action in P as long as there is enough light. With shorter lenses, like the 70-24, P will let the shutter speed drop enough to blur the subject. That's when I tend to use Tv with a shutter speed of about 1/1000. I rarely use anything other than M with flash unless I am just going for fill. As for Av vs Tv, I've seen a lot more pictures ruined by camera shake than I have by depth of field issues.

I'm an old geezer and shot with manual cameras most of my life - mostly Canon F1s. I whole heartedly agree that you have to know how and why to vary exposure to use any mode well.

casaaviocar wrote in post #10712652
It's interesting to see this post. I remember arguing this at least a year or so ago. I hinted that maybe the full manual crowd was maybe a little hoity toity in with their full manual bent. I see at least one of whom I argued with now admitting that maybe M wasn't a be all end all.

Nobody likes a sore winner...

To be honest, I shot in Manual 100% of the time all throughout last year. I would spot (well, partial on my XT) meter several objects to base my exposure off of, and then adjust the settings and get a pretty much dead-on exposure just the way I wanted it every time. The downside was that it was a very slow method, and at the end of the day I realized that I spent far more time worrying about changing settings than I did about the picture turning out well.

This spring I changed over to Av mode with Center-Weighted Average metering and couldn't be happier. I'll still use Manual when I find a need for it, but most of the time I find myself "grabbing" the exposure from a certain area of the frame and locking it in with a half press of the shutter - AF on the * button. Most of the time I don't have to mess with exposure compensation (though I still do) and I still get the exposures I want at a very rapid pace.

But I still don't like evaluative metering.

bohdank wrote in post #10713601
There is more than 1 way to skin a cat, not that I have ever skinned a cat.

I skinned a deer once, and from that I learned that I prefer to get my meat from the supermarket. I doubt cat would be worth the bother.

You can get perfectly workable results in Av, Tv or M modes, but to get consistently correctly exposed shots you have to understand metering no matter which mode you choose.

I prefer M mode, not because it makes me feel superior but because I find that it takes less effort to get correct exposures that way. Typically I can meter once before I start shooting something and M mode will deliver the correct exposure for the entire sequence.

Av or Tv modes will sometimes change exposures on me incorrectly due to reflected light. M mode means I don't have to change exposure compensation when changing subjects.

The only place M mode becomes cumbersome is when the light levels are changing. This is a lot less common than a lot of people tend to think.

Once you had that perfect exposure, it should have continued to be perfect unless a cloud passed in front of the sun, the sun set or you went inside. I'll meter once and then proceed to shoot upwards of 400 photos (if I'm shooting sports) without ever looking at the meter or histogram again. Even in the evening, chimping every 10 to 15 minutes is plenty to account for a setting sun.

When shooting concerts, not what you would call consistent light. Lights are going on and off, performer is moving into/out of the light. The worst mode is one of the Creative ones. You soon figure out the correct exposure for "in the light" and "out of the light". I shoot in M and spin my shutter to account for the changes. It does take some initial chimping until you've settled on the 2, sometimes more, exposures. No way I could do that in Av or Tv. Problem is, I sometimes forget to change the exposure back

But you are right about shooting outside. Once you find the best combination of ISO/shutter/aperture, there is usually little reason to go and change it.

If you are using the camera's meter Av, Tv, and M are all the same really. Just different ways to get the same picture.

Problem, for me, is that +-2 EC is not enough in Av mode and a changing light meter readings will completely screw up what I have determined my exposure should be.

For more typical shooting where lighting changes little or is not concentrated in parts of the frame, Av/Tv with EC control works just as well.

JeffreyG wrote in post #10719444
Once you had that perfect exposure, it should have continued to be perfect unless a cloud passed in front of the sun, the sun set or you went inside. I'll meter once and then proceed to shoot upwards of 400 photos (if I'm shooting sports) without ever looking at the meter or histogram again. Even in the evening, chimping every 10 to 15 minutes is plenty to account for a setting sun.

Or unless I was moving somewhere else.

I don't do a lot of shooting at a standstill, so with changing lighting (inside/outside, shade/sun, clouds/no clouds, etc. etc.) I would still keep having to figure out that exposure every minute or so. To be perfectly honest, I have more fun if I can shoot Av mode and not worry about adjusting it too much on the fly. I still shoot manual if the time calls for it (last night even), but Av mode to me now I just enjoy more .

TheBurningCrown wrote in post #10720482
Or unless I was moving somewhere else.

I don't do a lot of shooting at a standstill, so with changing lighting (inside/outside, shade/sun, clouds/no clouds, etc. etc.) I would still keep having to figure out that exposure every minute or so. To be perfectly honest, I have more fun if I can shoot Av mode and not worry about adjusting it too much on the fly. I still shoot manual if the time calls for it (last night even), but Av mode to me now I just enjoy more .

Keeping it in AV mode produces the exact exposures in all those conditions? For me that is never the case. For me, AV mode gives me OK images, but not great without some constant EC changes. If I'm going to need to constantly dial in EC to get the exposures I want, I just stick to manual as then I am the only one changing the exposure.

Hogloff wrote in post #10720830
Keeping it in AV mode produces the exact exposures in all those conditions? For me that is never the case.

As I said in a previous post, the way I use Av mode is to "grab" the exposure from a part of the scene and lock it down with a half press of the shutter. Yes I need to do some EC changes depending on where I am, but with the method above I can expose the scene how I want it without the time needed to center the meter in manual (which is a pain with the scroll wheel on my XT).

If you have to keep changing EC on the fly then yeah, manual makes far more sense. But if you are for example in an indoor setting where the lighting is changing but all of the walls are white, then setting the EC to somewhere around +1 and leaving it in Av I've found works really well.

Shoot whatever mode you want to. No one will ask most likely.

Personally, I use Av most of the time. I will go to manual for flash photos. Mostly I am just taking pictures of my kids, and this seems to work out OK for me.

I can imagine that there might be some situations where Av or Tv would be easier--perhaps when shooting something like birds on a day with fast moving cloud cover(?)--but in most cases, it's just easier to use M mode. Dial in exactly what you want, chimp your histogram, and you'll get no nasty surprises.

Now, as for the problem of forgetting to change something: well, that happens to everyone on occasion, regardless of which mode you use. However, if you get used to letting the camera make changes for you, then you won't be in the habit of checking all settings and will be even more likely to overlook one of them.

Phrasikleia wrote in post #10725264
Now, as for the problem of forgetting to change something: well, that happens to everyone on occasion, regardless of which mode you use. However, if you get used to letting the camera make changes for you, then you won't be in the habit of checking all settings and will be even more likely to overlook one of them.

Eh...I disagree. Unless you're shooting in Green Box or Program, the camera isn't making many decisions for you. If you are asking the camera to determine a shutter speed to match your aperture value, there is no difference between that and "centering the meter" in manual mode. You still have to pay attention to what choices it's making, arguably more so than watching yourself in manual mode. Neither really requires more attentiveness, just different ends of the same stick.

As for overlooking settings - we all do that. I was annoyed for having to shoot wide open at such low shutter speeds last night, planning to push them in post. It was only later I realized I was shooting at ISO 400, not 1600 (d'oh!). That's what I get for having a camera that doesn't list the ISO anywhere but in the menu (well and the info on the review screen, but I usually overlook that).

TheBurningCrown wrote in post #10725570
Eh...I disagree. Unless you're shooting in Green Box or Program, the camera isn't making many decisions for you. If you are asking the camera to determine a shutter speed to match your aperture value, there is no difference between that and "centering the meter" in manual mode. You still have to pay attention to what choices it's making, arguably more so than watching yourself in manual mode. Neither really requires more attentiveness, just different ends of the same stick.

When people tell you they use manual mode, they are not simply centering the needle for each shot. Doing so is silly, it's just a slow version of Av or Tv.

Using manual exposure generally involves getting to the desired exposure some way (this can be using the meter and the histogram, using an incident meter, using a rule of thumb....whatever). The point is that once you have reached that exposure decision, M mode keeps that setting for you. This is the attraction of M mode.