Yongnuo RF-602 or PW Mini TT1 & Flex TT5

ecub wrote in post #10722279
Yes, via AC9. Soon to be available

Oh look, there goes more money...

Sound like killer features to me

I *am* knocking the PWs though .
The main reason that I'm knocking them is two fold. The biggest one is that I *want* them to work so badly. I'd love a nice off-camera TTL solution. Unfortunately, the PWs really under delivered on that promised. And people are somewhat gullible about that and revere PW so much because of their past achievements that they don't see how horribly designed the Flex/Mini are - especially compared to the price.

I'd love to like the PW Flex/Mini, but I can't.

ecub wrote in post #10722372
It doesn't it badly. Heard allot of good reviews about it and it seems like a few pros use it.

No, it does do it badly - as soon as you have more than one flash off camera. Canon's wireless TTL does it well. That's my bar. Radio Poppers thusly do it well, but their piggy-back setup unfortunately sucks.

I know it's yet to be determined that's why I qualified it with my "may or may not". I've read quite a few posts about dead 580's by now though. Before the Flex/Mini came out everybody called the 580 rock solid. My 580's are in fact rock solid. So I'd at least be somewhat suspicious.

If you go and design an addon to a product, you should better darn well make sure it works well with that product - no matter how crappy the product is.

You know quite well that that's not much of a solution in most situations.

That's great news and I'm very glad!

Not really, but I won't elaborate on this.

I don't like the piggy-back system the RPs use, but at least it works *well*. In camera TTL control, groups, ratios, etc., etc. If it weren't for the piggy back setup, I'd have 'em in a heart beat.

I don't think so. Or at least not on a scale as the RF-602 vs. Flex/Mini debate which is a factor of 5x.

wdwpsu wrote in post #10722409
They do it fine if you know what you are doing.

Oh, so I missed the part where the Flex/Mini do ratios for groups now, and in-camera control etc., etc.?
Wait, no I didn't. They still don't do half of Canon's TTL features...

There is more evidence of 580's dieing when used with a PW Flex/Mini than I've heard of people dieing from eating carrots (none that I know of). The jury is in fact still out on the 580/Flex/Mini subject, but judging by the RF noise fiasco, I know that PW will never admit to any issues.

Ah yes, the RF shield... A ridiculous workaround for a problem the PWs should never have had in the first place. Yet nobody faults PW. It's like people thinking that the iPhone "jailbreak" is "cute" somehow when it's really a gaping "remote code execution flaw" that people would rip apart a company like Microsoft for...

Yes, finally! An actual pro! PocketWizards are readily available in most western countries, have a guarantee and will be services/exchanged quickly. Hopefully somebody in the US will start stocking and servicing triggers like the RF-602's or the upcoming Phottix Strato's so there is a better alternative than ordering/exchanging to China.

Pretty much every time this subject is brought up, there's people that bash it. Constantly.
There's also people that praise it.
I like mine. I use them for every wedding I do, as well as family portraits and seniors.
I've got no desire to defend PW against every accusation thrown at them. I like mine, I use mine with very little problems, and that makes me a satisfied customer.
I've learned to take so-called "advice" from forums like these with less and less credibility, and learn to read not only the advice itself, but the tone used. Generally the more rabid, the less credibility I give it. Sarcasm, etc is usually ignored as well.

And I have a feeling that the people that really bash it, never even seen or touched one, let alone used it.


(I've deleted my previous post, since the thread was starting to get ridiculous)

I have a suggestion.. Why pay the 450 for the 580ex ii if you are just going to be using it off camera?

Do you really NEED that much power? If not so, you could just move any other model a lot closer and get the same results as the 580.. There are a lot of other manual control flashes out there that could give you the same effects/results with just minor changes in position. For the price of a 580 you could easily get 2 used 430ex models and be able to add more dynamics to your images.

I don't really know what you are shooting typically but this is another idea you could consider. Also if you are considering the simple non E-TTL or even TTL version of the trigger system then why would you even bother with a flash that is based around that when you could just get 3-4 SB-24,26,28,whatevers and then have a whole other world of strobes all over the place... lol.

Also what is the range of triggering response that you need. If you are under 90ft then why not consider the Cactus V4s. That's what I'm using and I love them, they are cheap and get the job done all the time. I've only maybe had one misfire in 400+ shots and that might of also been due to the fact that I was shooting pretty quick and my 430ex ii didn't pop because of it, the batteries were getting low at that point...

I have one 430ex ii, vivitar 283 modified for full manual control, and I borrow my friends Nikon SB flashes when he doesn't need them and I want to get some craziness going.

Also I think it's good to do manual flashes for a while as well, it allows a photographer to learn more about what he needs to do and later on once you upgrade to the fancy smanshy TTL communicative receivers and all and something takes a big hot steaming **** on you in the middle of a shoot you can switch to manual and get running again with a decent knowledge of how your shots will look as you start changing setting on strobes and so on....

BTW: how do you like that visual of the crap?

Totally true, but some that bash it actually have used them. Either they were bad units, or their flash was extra noisy, or they just didn't get the complications that come with them.
Everybody has a right to an opinion...I just don't have to believe it.

BoneJj wrote in post #10723501
I have a suggestion.. Why pay the 450 for the 580ex ii if you are just going to be using it off camera?

Do you really NEED that much power? If not so, you could just move any other model a lot closer and get the same results as the 580.. There are a lot of other manual control flashes out there that could give you the same effects/results with just minor changes in position. For the price of a 580 you could easily get 2 used 430ex models and be able to add more dynamics to your images.

I don't really know what you are shooting typically but this is another idea you could consider. Also if you are considering the simple non E-TTL or even TTL version of the trigger system then why would you even bother with a flash that is based around that when you could just get 3-4 SB-24,26,28,whatevers and then have a whole other world of strobes all over the place... lol.

Also what is the range of triggering response that you need. If you are under 90ft then why not consider the Cactus V4s. That's what I'm using and I love them, they are cheap and get the job done all the time. I've only maybe had one misfire in 400+ shots and that might of also been due to the fact that I was shooting pretty quick and my 430ex ii didn't pop because of it, the batteries were getting low at that point...

I have one 430ex ii, vivitar 283 modified for full manual control, and I borrow my friends Nikon SB flashes when he doesn't need them and I want to get some craziness going.

Also I think it's good to do manual flashes for a while as well, it allows a photographer to learn more about what he needs to do and later on once you upgrade to the fancy smanshy TTL communicative receivers and all and something takes a big hot steaming **** on you in the middle of a shoot you can switch to manual and get running again with a decent knowledge of how your shots will look as you start changing setting on strobes and so on....

BTW: how do you like that visual of the crap?

That's great advice right there. Especially learning the concepts manually at first.

int2str wrote in post #10723132
I don't like the piggy-back system the RPs use, but at least it works *well*. In camera TTL control, groups, ratios, etc., etc. If it weren't for the piggy back setup, I'd have 'em in a heart beat.

While yes they do have a piggy back kind of style there have been several new updates with the RadioPoppers line. The now have the cubes ( i think that's their name) that don't require modification of the built in receiver to transmit the signal, now they just do it right though the shoe. Makes life a crap load easier... Keep in mind he paid a little more for the studio version of one of the pieces because it has a couple extra options that are available and can be turned off if need be but at least they are available...

Also the system is a crap load cheaper than the other systems out there as well. So If anything the OP or whoever is after them will have more money in pocket to play with or buy an extra flash and more radiopoppers to be able to play with and have more fun while shooting (yes I still find it fun to shoot, even when I am struggling with lighting...).

One of the Users over at NSOP is running his system for a while now and loves it last I read him talking about it.

This is his thread about them here:
http://newschoolofphot​ography.com …er-jrx-studio-system.html

You can always shoot him a message on NSOP for him to give more details on the system as to how things are going, actually, I'll shoot him a PM right now. I know he's on this forum as well but I can't remember if he's under the same user name or not.

ootsk wrote in post #10723519
That's great advice right there. Especially learning the concepts manually at first.

thank you, and thank you for reading my long winded/typed posts as well. I tend to ramble...

My last word on the PocketWizards is a quote straight from the MiniTT1 manual (pg. 33; emphasis mine):

What Canon features are not available through the ControlTL system at this time?
Rear Curtain Sync, FEB, stroboscopic, adjusting flash settings via the camera’s menus, individual
manual control of slave groups without using Canon’s ratio system, FEC set on the flash, and other
features not expressly mentioned. These features may be implemented soon so be sure to check
www.PocketWizard.com for future firmware updates.

BoneJj wrote in post #10723529
While yes they do have a piggy back kind of style there have been several new updates with the RadioPoppers line. The now have the cubes...

Good info there. Yes, the RPCubes are a good compromise. Easy, quick ratio control right on top of the camera at a fraction of the cost of the RP PX system or the PW Mini/Flex+AC5. Of course no high-speed sync/hyper sync and TTL. But still, especially at the price difference the JrX/RPCube setup is a very nice alternative.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, so...
Here is what I use.

int2str wrote in post #10723631
My last word on the PocketWizards is a quote straight from the MiniTT1 manual (pg. 33; emphasis mine):

What Canon features are not available through the ControlTL system at this time?
Rear Curtain Sync, FEB, stroboscopic, adjusting flash settings via the camera’s menus, individual
manual control of slave groups without using Canon’s ratio system, FEC set on the flash, and other
features not expressly mentioned. These features may be implemented soon so be sure to check
www.PocketWizard.com for future firmware updates.

Good info there. Yes, the RPCubes are a good compromise. Easy, quick ratio control right on top of the camera at a fraction of the cost of the RP PX system or the PW Mini/Flex+AC5. Of course no high-speed sync/hyper sync and TTL. But still, especially at the price difference the JrX/RPCube setup is a very nice alternative.

you make a good point but how often is one going to be truly using those couple of options?

Plus to change any of these features it shouldn't be much issue to walk over and switch to whatever you want/can do with this this system. I know high speed sync is possible but idk about hyper sync.

TTL is partially doable though, as you can adjust the power settings remotely but the rest of the options aren't. So there are some manual changes that will still need to be made such as zoom and so on but for the most part those options aren't needed to be adjusted much once you get going. it's mostly the power levels that people need to mess with.

As we both know though, the cost savings is significant and will still give the photographer a lot more wiggle room for working faster and getting the results he wants.

And yes, I still go by the old rule that "he" when used in a general fashion can mean "she", screw politically correct people...

BoneJj wrote in post #10723501
I have a suggestion.. Why pay the 450 for the 580ex ii if you are just going to be using it off camera?

Do you really NEED that much power? If not so, you could just move any other model a lot closer and get the same results as the 580.. There are a lot of other manual control flashes out there that could give you the same effects/results with just minor changes in position. For the price of a 580 you could easily get 2 used 430ex models and be able to add more dynamics to your images.

I don't really know what you are shooting typically but this is another idea you could consider. Also if you are considering the simple non E-TTL or even TTL version of the trigger system then why would you even bother with a flash that is based around that when you could just get 3-4 SB-24,26,28,whatevers and then have a whole other world of strobes all over the place... lol.

Also what is the range of triggering response that you need. If you are under 90ft then why not consider the Cactus V4s. That's what I'm using and I love them, they are cheap and get the job done all the time. I've only maybe had one misfire in 400+ shots and that might of also been due to the fact that I was shooting pretty quick and my 430ex ii didn't pop because of it, the batteries were getting low at that point...

I have one 430ex ii, vivitar 283 modified for full manual control, and I borrow my friends Nikon SB flashes when he doesn't need them and I want to get some craziness going.

Also I think it's good to do manual flashes for a while as well, it allows a photographer to learn more about what he needs to do and later on once you upgrade to the fancy smanshy TTL communicative receivers and all and something takes a big hot steaming **** on you in the middle of a shoot you can switch to manual and get running again with a decent knowledge of how your shots will look as you start changing setting on strobes and so on....

BTW: how do you like that visual of the crap?

thanks for the info.. basically i want 2 speedlights. i have a 430EXII and want a 580EXII. My 7D has a built in transmeitter, but 1.) it's IR (limits me big time) and 2.) the pop up flash causes shadows when using a background. 3.) it's hard for me to do rim light.
So that's why i need another option for OCF.
I like using Manual flash over TTL.
and i might just check those Cactus v4's... thanks man

RF-602's are your best bet for non TTL choice.
Pixel Knights if you want High speed Sync to kill ambient as well as TTL.

RLPhoto wrote in post #10726496
thanks for the info.. basically i want 2 speedlights. i have a 430EXII and want a 580EXII. My 7D has a built in transmeitter, but 1.) it's IR (limits me big time) and 2.) the pop up flash causes shadows when using a background. 3.) it's hard for me to do rim light.
So that's why i need another option for OCF.
I like using Manual flash over TTL.
and i might just check those Cactus v4's... thanks man

the cactus V4 is full manual flash. also the IR is going to be the same with the 580ex flashes as well. if you don't use any triggers you will still be suing the IR from the 580 or the camera... which means you will still need line of sight to the strobe that has the IR ability. Also there are other options out there that will work with canons IR system. If you are indoors shooting you can sometimes bounce the IR signal off walls or any reflective surface and still get the communication that you want.

I hope you aren't thinking that the 580 will give you wireless ability that doesn't need to be line of sight for the flash.

If you like going manual then definitely give the cactus V4 system a shot.
You can get them directly through GI directly:
For the main set you will need:
https://www.gadgetinfi​nity.com …ctid=17204&cat=​317&page=1
and extra receivers:
https://www.gadgetinfi​nity.com …ctid=17205&cat=​317&page=1

Their shipping is pretty damn cheap as well but it will take a couple weeks to show up.

You can oder them in the US through Mpex:
http://www.mpex.com/br​owse.cfm/2,880.html

It'll cost you an additional 10 bucks or so for each item but you'll have them withing 4-6 days or ordering. So if you want them fast just order through mpex and pay to play or if you want to make it a really cheap set then order them directly from honk kong...

but all in all, if you order them the cheap way you will have spent under 75 to have a good working wireless set of trigger and receivers (for 2 strobes).

Also if that's how you want to go, don't bother with a 580ex ii unless you are crazy like the rest of us and are a gear whore... I know I am. you can easily get 3 other name brand flashes for the price of a 580exii, maybe even as many as 5 if you find some good deals.

I'm hoping that one of these other damn companies will release a fully adjustable 1/3rd stop strobe soon so I don't have to be so damn picky with my gear. I know yungo or whatever their name was has been working on oen but IDK when the hell they plan to release it for production.