5Dii -vs- 7D for landscaping; PART 2!

qbfx wrote in post #10883561
Why did you reduce the size and quality so much ?
you should've posted bigger, better quality images to make it clear if it's really a 8% difference or a bit more (theory and math isn't everything)

the other thread I did with the 7D -vs- 5Dii has just that, links to full res images. The point here was to see if people could tell w/o being able to pixel peep. IE how we'd normally view an image on the wall. Yes I realize people walk right up to prints on gallery walls to appreciate the details, but the point here is just to show they're very close until you get to that level, and even then they're still close.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #10883595
Strangely though, even if links to larger versions were there, the discussion really wouldn't take a different path, it would be basically the same. This isn't the first 5DII to 7D comparison thread, Nicksan did one back when the 7D first came out, and there have been others.

Those that are die-hard FF fans have a very hard time honoring that an APS-C body is nipping at the FF heals (understandably given the pre-7D playing field in the past), and those that are APS-C owners think their equipment is much better than it really might be. I decided to just fix my own situation by getting both.

agreed. And I have a 5D on the way to me now as well.

jacobsen1 wrote in post #10883819
agreed. And I have a 5D on the way to me now as well.

LOL, you will have a nice duo there, these two bodies are very complementary, you shouldn't have tried this 2 out against each other. I tried out a 5Dc a month or so ago, and decided if the opportunity arose, I would move to the 5DII because I wanted more of the 7D tech/feel. I really liked the 5Dc, but it was definitely a no-frills, down to business FF camera. The 5Dc seemed sharper than the 5DII though.

jacobsen1 wrote in post #10883819
the other thread I did with the 7D -vs- 5Dii has just that, links to full res images. The point here was to see if people could tell w/o being able to pixel peep. IE how we'd normally view an image on the wall. Yes I realize people walk right up to prints on gallery walls to appreciate the details, but the point here is just to show they're very close until you get to that level, and even then they're still close.

I love you Ben, you're one of my better friends here, but I still think you did it to justify your purchase

jacobsen1 wrote in post #10883819
the other thread I did with the 7D -vs- 5Dii has just that, links to full res images. *The point here was to see if people could tell w/o being able to pixel peep. *IE how we'd normally view an image on the wall. *Yes I realize people walk right up to prints on gallery walls to appreciate the details, but the point here is just to show they're very close until you get to that level, and even then they're still close.

When I say bigger, better quality images, I don't mean exctly full res. You have to agree that a 24x36 print, even when viewed at a distance presents more detail then what you posted here.

I know the 7D is an exceptional body, better in many aspects than the 5D2, I myself get to use one quite frequently, and it's true it delivers astonishing results, but when you think of it, the 5D2 isn't really that more expensive for a FF of that quality and most of the people that can buy a 7D can swing the price premium for it if it better suits their shooting needs. When you factor in that the production of a FF sensor is several times costlier than that of a crop sensor, the 5D2 is really worth the price premium if all one does is landscape photography IMO.

Just to be clear, I myself never promoted FF as the only way to go for landscapes, but in the end if one does only that type of photography and one's serious, FF does offer some advantages even if they're not as evident as some here would lead you to believe, and thus for me it IS the logical choice. And I never pixelpeep.

Al*

TeamSpeed wrote in post #10883835
if the opportunity arose, I would move to the 5DII because I wanted more of the 7D tech/feel. I really liked the 5Dc, but it was definitely a no-frills, down to business FF camera. The 5Dc seemed sharper than the 5DII though.

see, I LIKE that it's a no frills FF. The 5Dii's AF system feels so dated after using a 7D or D700 that I'd rather deal with it in a 5D than pay for a 5Dii... The things I'll miss from the 5Dii though are liveview, a shared battery, and video I guess, but I have that with the 7D. Oh, and the dust shaker, I remember monthly cleanings with the 5D back when I had it... The 5Dii made that once every 2~3 months. The smaller area of the 7D will likely make it even less frequent.

and yes, the 5D is sharper than the 5Dii, but the 5Dii is no slouch in that category.

MichaelBernard wrote in post #10883927
I love you Ben, you're one of my better friends here, but I still think you did it to justify your purchase

qbfx wrote in post #10884247
When I say bigger, better quality images, I don't mean exctly full res. You have to agree that a 24x36 print, even when viewed at a distance presents more detail then what you posted here.

we're discussing images on an online website... how does it get any better than full res files? Yes a large print will have more details than what's posted here, but I size my shots so they'll fit on most screens to be viewed all at once. I probably should have shot something horizontal so I could do my usual 1000px wide web size, but I find verticals need to be under that mark as a lot of monitors these days are widescreen and not 1000px tall...

the issue with the price on the 5Dii isn't the sensor. FF sensors will always cost more as will the bodies they're put into. The issue now is the bells and whistles that the 7D has but the 5Dii is missing. Hopefully the 5Diii solves some of these issues next year and possibly gets the 7D's AF. But who knows. I just know for me it's hard to justify a FF camera that shoots 4fps and has pretty bad AF (the center point is fantastic) for shooting stopped down.

Don't get me wrong, if/when the 5Diii comes around with everything from the 7D in it, I'll probably be more likely to get one then. I just LOVE the feature set in the 7D, if it were FF I'd be in heaven. But I also shoot a WIDE variety of things, so the FPS are something I feel I need in ONE of my bodies for sports shooting (I shoot sequences so I need all the frames, not spray and pray). If the ONLY difference between the 5Diii and 7D were the price and the sensor, I'd get a 5Diii in a heartbeat. If it's that AND a FPS difference then I'll be torn and I'll either get another cheaper body for FPS, or be forced to keep the 7D.

jacobsen1 wrote in post #10884481

[GIFS ARE NOT RENDERED IN QUOTES]

it's hard to say I was justifying a purchase when I actually owned both though isn't it?

Not considering the praises I saw you singing the 7d in other threads during the time you had both.. I will give you credit though, you've made me want to try it out. Though the more I see it's high ISO shots the more I want my 5d2 back. The 7d just doesn't measure up in that respect.

p.s. Just a bit of ribbing brother.

jacobsen1 wrote in post #10884481
Don't get me wrong, if/when the 5Diii comes around with everything from the 7D in it, I'll probably be more likely to get one then. I just LOVE the feature set in the 7D, if it were FF I'd be in heaven. But I also shoot a WIDE variety of things, so the FPS are something I feel I need in ONE of my bodies for sports shooting (I shoot sequences so I need all the frames, not spray and pray). If the ONLY difference between the 5Diii and 7D were the price and the sensor, I'd get a 5Diii in a heartbeat. If it's that AND a FPS difference then I'll be torn and I'll either get another cheaper body for FPS, or be forced to keep the 7D.

I agree, if the 5D3 has the feature set of the 7D, I'm all for it! Hopefully the 5D3 will slow down in the megapixel race and offer better DR *wishful thinking*

I still think the noise patterns on the 7D is a bit cleaner than the 5DII though, but it is all good. I will be shooting my first band competition of the year this weekend, and will be taking both bodies. I often shoot these at ISOs >= 3200, so now I will have two bodies. I will see how the ol' sigma 50-500 works on the 5D, I should be able to get a bit more DOF back from this slow lens at least.

But 12800 looks pretty good out of camera on the 5D2, nothing I am going to complain about. Just resized, no post noise removal. The red channel is a little hyperactive though.

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MichaelBernard wrote in post #10884547
Not considering the praises I saw you singing the 7d in other threads during the time you had both.. I will give you credit though, you've made me want to try it out. Though the more I see it's high ISO shots the more I want my 5d2 back. The 7d just doesn't measure up in that respect.

the 7D is interesting at high ISOs for sure. It's noisier, but there's no pattern/banding to it. It also loses it's color/contrast/saturat​ion about a stop earlier? But singing the 7D praises? What's not to love ignoring the sensor? If it was an 18mp FF sensor (with the same -5% resolution) don't you think people would FLOCK to it? IE the "3D"?

Hell, even if it had 10~12mp but were FF I'd be set.

kl07rph wrote in post #10884586
I agree, if the 5D3 has the feature set of the 7D, I'm all for it! Hopefully the 5D3 will slow down in the megapixel race and offer better DR *wishful thinking*

pfffffft, canon's got 18mp in APS-C now, you KNOW they'll go higher (than the 5Dii) with the 5Diii... I'd bet it'll have a similar # to the 1DsIV, but you never know (since the 5D didn't match the first two 1Ds sensors).

TeamSpeed wrote in post #10884626
I still think the noise patterns on the 7D is a bit cleaner than the 5DII though, but it is all good. I will be shooting my first band competition of the year this weekend, and will be taking both bodies. I often shoot these at ISOs >= 3200, so now I will have two bodies. I will see how the ol' sigma 50-500 works on the 5D, I should be able to get a bit more DOF back from this slow lens at least.

It'll be interesting to see what differences you see. The 7D has impressed me for a cropper, but it's got less "pop" to the images at 3200 and beyond IMHO. I'm also curious to see how the 5D does at 3200 in comparison with LR3...

and nice mug, I finally broke down and ordered one last week.

I have wood for what the 3d should be. I mean WOOD. It should be a smaller 1ds2 with newer tech. I am willing to bet $$$ on it.

jacobsen1 wrote in post #10885199
It'll be interesting to see what differences you see. The 7D has impressed me for a cropper, but it's got less "pop" to the images at 3200 and beyond IMHO. I'm also curious to see how the 5D does at 3200 in comparison with LR3...

and nice mug, I finally broke down and ordered one last week.

If you use noiseware and CS3 or higher, I have a set of actions I use on my 7D that I created last year. They seem to work quite well. You could always substitute the noiseware step with a noise ninja set, etc.

You can see it in action here and order it ($5, and part of this goes to POTN donations):

http://teamspeed.smugm​ug.com …192_Ujsb8#67281​7306_2snnC

MichaelBernard wrote in post #10885227
I have wood for what the 3d should be. I mean WOOD. It should be a smaller 1ds2 with newer tech. I am willing to bet $$$ on it.

we've been waiting for this camera since just after the 5D came out though, do you REALLY think it's still going to be made? I HOPE so, but damn, make it already canon.