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Thread started 17 Aug 2010 (Tuesday) 11:43
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what does the crop sensor do?

 
TeleFragger
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Aug 17, 2010 11:43 |  #1

just trying to learn.. while on craigslist for the other topic for craigslist, ebay or what...

i see a guy selling a lense.. and here is what he said...

Hi, this is the Canon ef 14mm f/2.8 L USM mark II series lens. I just bought this lens for a music video, and I found out it won't be wide enough for this project since I am using a (T2i) camera with a x1.6 crop sensor. This lens could easily pass for being brand new. I would be keeping it if I had a camera with a full frame sensor. These photos are of the actual lens I have.


http://philadelphia.cr​aigslist.org/pho/18992​83441.html (external link)


im just curious so i know for future what that means...


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egordon99
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Aug 17, 2010 11:53 |  #2

A crop sensor is just smaller than a frame of 35mm film. So the sensor doesn't "see" as much a full-frame sensor would.

The 14mm f/2.8L is an utter waste on a crop sensor as the lens costs as much as it does because it is designed to provide a wide enough Field-of-view on full frame. You can get 14mm @ f/2.8 on a crop body by spending $600 on the Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8.




  
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DC ­ Fan
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Aug 17, 2010 13:38 |  #3

TeleFragger wrote in post #10738070 (external link)
im just curious so i know for future what that means...

Knowing the answer means knowing something about the history of digital cameras that are based on 35mm single-lens reflex interchangeable-lens cameras from the 1990's.

When the first DSLR's were made, about a generation ago, they were converted from 35mm cameras. The largest and most expensive component was the imaging chip that replaced the film plane. It was far too expensive and difficult to make an imaging chip that matched the size of a 35mm frame, so the companies that converted the cameras used smaller imaging chips. That's where the "crop" terminology started, because a smaller imaging chip effectively "crops" the center out of a 35mm frame.

It wasn't until the last few years that chipmakers have been able to produce imaging chips that match the size of a 35mm frame of film. Smaller imaging chips remain less expensive and are used in most DSLR's.




  
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toxic
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Aug 17, 2010 13:59 |  #4

DC Fan wrote in post #10738814 (external link)
When the first DSLR's were made, about a generation ago, they were converted from 35mm cameras. The largest and most expensive component was the imaging chip that replaced the film plane. It was far too expensive and difficult to make an imaging chip that matched the size of a 35mm frame, so the companies that converted the cameras used smaller imaging chips. That's where the "crop" terminology started, because a smaller imaging chip effectively "crops" the center out of a 35mm frame.

The critical part is that the manufacturers were reusing their 35mm film lenses, not really just adapting the bodies. The "crop" comes from the fact that they weren't using the full image circle. Had they just come up with a new format and new lenses, no one would use this "crop" junk - no one thinks of 35mm as a ~1.6 crop of medium format.

The "crop factor" has one use - translating camera settings between formats. Say someone took a portrait with a 135mm lens on a 35mm camera. You want to recreate it on a T2i. That translates to 135mm / 1.6 = ~84mm, so you'd use an 85mm lens instead of 135mm.

If you have never used a 35mm camera, the "crop factor" has absolutely no meaning otherwise. Forget about it and just buy lenses that suit you.




  
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wask_
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Aug 17, 2010 14:03 |  #5

If you want wider, fast aperture and high quality get the tokina 11-16 f/2.8.


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Aug 17, 2010 15:06 |  #6

Here is my poor attempt at a diagram that might help you see what is going on, from a thread years ago.

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Aug 17, 2010 17:35 |  #7

This might help or add to the confusion. It's free: http://the-digital-picture.com …-of-View-Crop-Factor.aspx (external link)


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tonylong
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Aug 17, 2010 17:53 |  #8

Just to put the above answers in context, the poster found that the 14mm lens, which would give a very wide field of view on a larger sensor, gave a much narrower field of view than was needed with the smaller sensor on the camera being used. There are some lenses designed to give an "ultra wide" field of view on "crop" cameras (besides the Tokina mentioned there is also the Canon EF-S 10-22), which is probably what the shooter needed.


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SkipD
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Aug 17, 2010 19:56 |  #9

TeleFragger wrote in post #10738070 (external link)
im just curious so i know for future what that means...

The "crop factor" is a reference number that relates to the difference in film or sensor size (known as the camera's "format") between two cameras like the Canon 40D and a 35mm film (or a so-called "full-frame" digital) camera. Let me list the facts:

35mm film cameras and so-called "full frame" DSLRs have a film frame or sensor size of approximately 24mm X 36mm, while the Canon 40D has an APS-C sized sensor, measuring approximately 15mm X 22.5mm. The other Canon APS-C format cameras - starting with the D30 in the year 2000 and progressing through all of the "digital Rebel" xxxD series, the xxD series, and today's 7D - all have sensors that are sized similar to that in the 40D.

When camera manufacturers started designing digital SLRs (DSLRs), they decided that the DSLR bodies should be about the same physical size and configuration as their 35mm film SLRs. For that reason, they concluded that they could use the line of lenses they already had for their 35mm SLRs on the new DSLRs.

All lenses designed for 35mm cameras project an image circle onto the film that covers a 24mm X 36mm rectangle. The 35mm camera records the portion of that image circle that is defined by the opening behind the shutter for the film (24mm X 36mm in size). A digital SLR with an APS-C sized sensor only records the smaller area (approximately 15mm X 22mm) of the image circle projected by the same lens.

When you put a 100mm lens on a 35mm film camera and make a photograph, then put the same lens on a DSLR such as the Canon 40D and make a similar photograph - same subject, same position for the camera, and same focal length - and then enlarge both photographs to the same size print (4 X 6 inches, for example), it will appear as though the photo from the Canon 40D was taken with a longer lens. That is because the image recorded by the Canon 40D was of a SMALLER PORTION of the image circle projected by the lens - cropped, if you will - compared to the image recorded by the 35mm camera.

The special lenses for the Canon 40D (and other Canon APS-C cameras starting with the 300D - the first Digital Rebel) are called the EF-S series. These project a smaller image circle, making the lenses less expensive to design and produce in wide-angle and extreme wide-angle formats. The EF-S lenses also project deeper into the camera than the EF specification allows (the "S" referring to "Short back focus), allowing for less expensive wide-angle lens designs. However, an EF-S lens set to 40mm will produce the exact same image as an EF lens set to 40mm if both lenses are used on the same APS-C format body and both lenses are focused at "infinity". Focal length is focal length, period.

Now to the primary point that I want to make: NOTHING about lens EVER CHANGES when you put it on different format cameras. Focal length never changes. Aperture range never changes. The only thing that would change is the apparent field of view, and that change is not a function of the lens but it is a function of the size of the sensor or film that will record the image.

The "crop factor" calculation for "35mm equivalent focal length" has only one valid use. That is for comparing lenses used on two different format cameras.

Here's one common example: Joe took a photo of Mount Rushmore with a 35mm camera from a particular place using a 200mm lens. You want to replicate that photo with your Canon 40D. What focal length do you need to do that from the same location that he took his photo? Divide the 200mm by 1.6 and you get the answer - 125mm.

Here's another popular example: Mary Sue has been using a Canon SX120 IS point-n-shoot camera and is wanting to use a Canon 50D DSLR. She is, of course, interested in what focal lengths she would need to keep the versatility of the SX120 camera's 10X super-zoom lens. The SX120 lens is actually a 6.0mm to 60.0mm lens, but the advertising also shows the "35mm equivalent" focal length range as 36mm to 360mm. To know the focal lengths needed for the 50D, merely divide the "35mm equivalent" values by 1.6. In other words, Mary Sue would need 22.5mm on the short end and 225mm on the long end for the 50D to have the same field (angle) of view coverage as her SX120 IS camera.

The "crop factor" is NOTHING MORE than a REFERENCE between the two camera formats that lets you compare the field of view of particular focal lengths between the two formats.

The "crop factor" (as related to using lenses essentially designed for 35mm SLR cameras) is always given assuming that the 35mm format (24mm X 36mm) is the reference master. Something to realize, though, is that the 35mm film format is not, never has been, and never will be the master" format against which all other camera formats are referenced. It is simply the format of the cameras that have also evolved into today's commonly used digital SLRs.

I hope this lengthy post helps you understand the facts.


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spotz04
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Aug 17, 2010 20:08 as a reply to  @ Craign's post |  #10

Crop factor/Focal length multiplier Conversion Chart-
http://www.digicamhelp​.com …-factor-conversion-chart/ (external link)

Download the chart
(GIF image contained in a Zip file).
http://www.digicamhelp​.com …-cf-converstion-chart.zip (external link)




  
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Reevo
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Aug 17, 2010 20:10 |  #11

I wrote a short post about this here on my blog (external link).


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SkipD
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Aug 17, 2010 20:23 |  #12

Reevo wrote in post #10740884 (external link)
I wrote a short post about this here on my blog (external link).

Suggestion: Define FOV early in your article and maybe even spell it out in the title. Many newbies are likely to have no idea what the abbreviation means.


Skip Douglas
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Craign
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Aug 17, 2010 23:13 |  #13

The link below is for a group of Photographer Calculators. Scroll down about 3/4 of the page to see the "Dimensional Field of View Calculator."

http://www.tawbaware.c​om/maxlyons/calc.htm (external link)


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what does the crop sensor do?
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