Observations after 2nd wedding

I just finished shooting my second wedding and it seems to go that people put up some observations about what they do and how it went. They even put up what they have learned. I guess it's my turn.

1. Weddings aren't as hard as what people make them out to be. Now, there's explanation to that. I didn't start doing weddings until I had a camera for two years. I learned before I leaped. I didn't start until I had all the goodies (lenses, couple bodies, lighting gear, etc.). But, still, they aren't that hard. If you are super structured it might be hard. But both have been fairly simple and people have listened to me. (Again, the ease comes from knowing how to get good photos.)

2. Get what you can before the party starts. There's nothing like trying to gather drunk people for photos. Tonight was super-easy although the drinking started pretty early.

3. Contracts. Contracts. Contracts. I haven't had a problem nor do I expect one due to contract terms.

4. Window light. My first wedding had 0 window lighting and the ambient mixed with my flash making it harder to post process. This one had 3 big windows and the light is mixed together really well. Which gets me to the next point.

5. Speedlight with high speed sync bounced. This was invaluable to mix the lighting and get rid of shadows. It got used bounced a lot and then FEC straight on during some of the formals after the ceremony.

6. Invest in off-camera lighting. The reception was outside and there was no way I could have done the bouquet toss or the garter without straight flash without this setup. It will set you apart from other photographers. Especially GWC or craigslist people who don't take the time to figure out how to use it.

7. Don't worry too much about a photo booth idea. Both receptions I have had have been outside. No one comes over and people are having too good of a time to bother with it. Inside of a smaller venue/room it might come in handy. It was just a waste of time to set it up. Couple of pictures here and there. It could change depending on how much I push it but by the time I get to it I'm not too enthused about taking photos anymore. I'd rather piddle around with other people and have fun.

8. Don't be too lax in getting the shot. During the first wedding I was worried about getting in the way. As the one who is "hired" to take the photos people think that they are in the way if you are moving around and bump into them (even though it's your fault, lol). I always worry about drawing attention to myself but since people know you are the "pro" (at least look like one) they don't tend to notice you during the ceremony unless you are just being nuts.

9. Try primes. I just can't get over the difference between a prime and a zoom. I can't describe it. I just see and feel a difference.

10. Re-make shots. Tonight the ceremony was a total of 9 minutes!!! I was the only shooter and I didn't have time to move back and forth and get what I wanted. So we took 5-10 minutes to do a few shots of what it could have been like if I was able to have 20 minutes to shoot from each side.

11. If you go to a wedding without a DJ then you might become the "official". Tonight (and the other wedding) I was the one to go and announce that the bride was ready, that we should do the toast, cake, and then dance, etc. There was no planner, real dj, or other "official". Since I run around and take pictures I ended up becoming a sort of announcer for upcoming events. That was fine with me as I don't mind doing that sort of thing and I'm on my way to various parts of the event all night long anyway.


That's what I see and I could probably add a lot more.

You have some good points, but you come over as overconfident, and both images and a website for you are conspicuously absent. I've been photographing weddings for five years, i've photographed more than one hundred weddings, and I think they're hard.

You're right though, it's not hard to take photos like the ones you posted in this thread. Though I like one of the images (the big group shot with the nice light behind them) they're generally not of the standard expected from a professional. They're very cliche and show no emotion whatsoever, but they're good for a beginner. It's pretty obvious to my eye that you don't "get it" yet, but don't worry, it takes time. Seminars and classes can help, Yervant was really interesting and he has a really interesting point of view, Beckstead was really good, JVK (kiwi photog that keeps winning awards) was amazing, and I expect Ghionis to be great too.

The problem with believing the critique from the people in the photo sharing forum is they're easily wowed, and in general they don't have the experience to judge great wedding photography. If you want real critique, ask a professional, someone who will give you honest, helpful feedback. If you can get Lloyd, Bobby, Stu, me, and a few of the other pros (it's late, sorry to the people I left off the list) to give you critique you'll probably learn a lot more than you would by proclaiming yourself an instant expert.

If you want to make great images, like these ones that Bobby took, like Cliff Mautner, or any of the really great wedding photographers, now that's hard. I have some thoughts on what makes a great photo, but that's for another thread.

Every year I "get it" a little more. I'm now so bad, but i'm still improving, and I think I have a long way to go. I think in five more years I might be pretty great.

Edit - points 2 and 11 above are related. You have to know what's going to happen, and when, often you have to be the one who sets when things happen during the planning stage. People just don't know the best way to do things, we have the experience. 5, bounced hss, doesn't sound like a great idea to me, you can't get a lot of light out of that. 8 is a good point. I don't agree with 10, personally, I don't recreate shots if I miss them or can't get to them. To me a wedding is about capturing emotion, not capturing set shots. If you miss a shot from a specific angle, who cares, so long as you caught the reason the shot should've been taken in the first place - the emotion.

I agree with every word that tim says. After two weddings, you think you're an expert and think that weddings are easy? I photographed many hundreds of weddings over thirty years and still wouldn't say that they are easy! It depends what your standards are.

I don't disagree with anything you've said, i think its great that you can have a good time and have taken the time to learn from others enough to be able to get through 2 weddings without troubbles !

That being said, if you are finding it easy, then i think its time to step out of your comfort zone and try for better.

I can't think of a single shoot i've done where ive liked the results and would consider the shoot easy

I liked reading this, but some points nonetheless. I'm not a pro though, but while pros probably have much ore experience and "warnings" about this, I have some observations from weddings I shot. I only covered one wedding solo, but I also shot things like a knighting ceremony etc. Pretty similar actually.

Sounds like you haven't met bridezilla. It doesn't really matter if you have everything covered in a contract. Word of mouth and attitude towards clients is important, and the business often doesn't end with the last shot being taken.

Regarding point 6 also, did you learn to balance your flashes against ambient color temp?
If you see tungsten lights, you should already be reaching for CTO or CTS gels, especially if you have a lovely old location with chandeliers in your shot. If you keep the lights out of your shot you could probably get away with overpowering them...

Probably the right decision in most cases, but what will you do when your next wedding is indoors with wooden walls and ceiling? I had to switch to shooting with a 50mm and 28mm prime at f/2, praying my high ISO would behave and focus was decent. Took some shots with handheld flash though.

Thousand times yes. Images will become so much better with proper lighting. Don't even try to set up Rembrandt lighting for all the ceremonial shots though. You need to be like a ninja and either have it ready before everyone starts, without having a lightstand with umbrella blocking people in the back or what not.
It's also really handy to have 2 or 3 flashes in case you have to do indoor group shots. Fix your metering in several of these shots so if you need to, you can make a combination of a few faces from multiple group shots.

Good to hear things are working out for you though

tim wrote in post #10765425
You have some good points, but you come over as overconfident, and both images and a website for you are conspicuously absent. I've been photographing weddings for five years, i've photographed more than one hundred weddings, and I think they're hard.

You're right though, it's not hard to take photos like the ones you posted in this thread. Though I like one of the images (the big group shot with the nice light behind them) they're generally not of the standard expected from a professional. They're very cliche and show no emotion whatsoever, but they're good for a beginner. It's pretty obvious to my eye that you don't "get it" yet, but don't worry, it takes time. Seminars and classes can help, Yervant was really interesting and he has a really interesting point of view, Beckstead was really good, JVK (kiwi photog that keeps winning awards) was amazing, and I expect Ghionis to be great too.

The problem with believing the critique from the people in the photo sharing forum is they're easily wowed, and in general they don't have the experience to judge great wedding photography. If you want real critique, ask a professional, someone who will give you honest, helpful feedback. If you can get Lloyd, Bobby, Stu, me, and a few of the other pros (it's late, sorry to the people I left off the list) to give you critique you'll probably learn a lot more than you would by proclaiming yourself an instant expert.

If you want to make great images, like these ones that Bobby took, like Cliff Mautner, or any of the really great wedding photographers, now that's hard. I have some thoughts on what makes a great photo, but that's for another thread.

Every year I "get it" a little more. I'm now so bad, but i'm still improving, and I think I have a long way to go. I think in five more years I might be pretty great.

Edit - points 2 and 11 above are related. You have to know what's going to happen, and when, often you have to be the one who sets when things happen during the planning stage. People just don't know the best way to do things, we have the experience. 5, bounced hss, doesn't sound like a great idea to me, you can't get a lot of light out of that. 8 is a good point. I don't agree with 10, personally, I don't recreate shots if I miss them or can't get to them. To me a wedding is about capturing emotion, not capturing set shots. If you miss a shot from a specific angle, who cares, so long as you caught the reason the shot should've been taken in the first place - the emotion.

I am by no means saying that I have "arrived". I think that maybe you're diving too deep in the "oh man this is easy." When I first lurked into the "Weddings" category it seemed that there were a lot of threads where someone wanted to jump into wedding photography and they were given the no, no, no..."you're not ready. It's way too hard. You have to do all this stuff before you should even consider it." Now, I'm not saying people are ready just because they have a camera.

You are right that they are "hard". It's hard catching things. It's hard to capture what you want when the ceremony is only 9min long from first bridesmaid to processional. It's hard to figure out exactly what's going on. But as far as going through the day it's not that hard IMO. I guess I'm not even talking about taking photos. I'm just talking about going in and being surrounded by the wedding atmosphere. It was pleasurable for ME. And I might have been swayed from doing weddings because I'm "not charging enough, don't have enough experience, shooting it solo, cliche', overconfident" etc.

When I actually ended up jumping and doing my first two weddings they were a lot simpler and "easier" than what the pros (real and self-professed) were touting for someone with no experience (in weddings). That's all I'm saying. The experience wasn't that bad, the clients are happy. Maybe the first observation is tongue in cheek and they will change. I don't mean to downplay what a pro does. It's just an observation.

As far as HSS and ambient I find it invaluable. Especially shooting wide filling in some of the shadows.

When it comes to re-creation of a shot there were just some that would be nice to have that I wasn't able to get due to time constraints/angles. Such as putting on the ring. Another kiss in their ceremony spot.

Thanks for giving me something to think about as you're one of the more respected posters on here.

Here's a website (zenfolio) and a quick edit I did last night before I went to bed.

fainphoto.zenfolio.com

Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE

tim wrote in post #10765425
Seminars and classes can help, Yervant was really interesting and he has a really interesting point of view, Beckstead was really good, JVK (kiwi photog that keeps winning awards) was amazing, and I expect Ghionis to be great too.

Totally off-topic but i really want to goto a seminar from Yervant or Jerry Ghionis ... watched their "interviews" in the masters of wedding photography series, and i found them both very interesting

What about when it rains the entire day? What about your first mother-in-law from hell that tells you where, what, and when to shoot? What about your first bride that breaks down in tears or pukes 15 minutes before the show? What about when your venue in no way is going to give you enough ambient light for 1/30 sec @ f/1.4 and the priest said no flash? What about 8 Uncle Bob's crowding your way with DSLRs and external flash brackets in front of you, sticking out down the aisle and in every other shot? (My friend had one recently where the guest brought his own remote RF flash triggers and multiple lights.)

Saying weddings aren't that tough after two of them is like a doctor delivering two healthy babies and saying "nothing to that, they just slid right out!"

TweakMDS wrote in post #10765537
I liked reading this, but some points nonetheless. I'm not a pro though, but while pros probably have much ore experience and "warnings" about this, I have some observations from weddings I shot. I only covered one wedding solo, but I also shot things like a knighting ceremony etc. Pretty similar actually.


Sounds like you haven't met bridezilla. It doesn't really matter if you have everything covered in a contract. Word of mouth and attitude towards clients is important, and the business often doesn't end with the last shot being taken.

I haven't yet. And that's why I'm just saying these are observations (i.e. opinions) and not the end all to anything. I'm sure if you give me 50 weddings I might be singing a different tune.

Regarding point 6 also, did you learn to balance your flashes against ambient color temp?
If you see tungsten lights, you should already be reaching for CTO or CTS gels, especially if you have a lovely old location with chandeliers in your shot. If you keep the lights out of your shot you could probably get away with overpowering them...

It was pretty easy in the getting ready area for this last one. White walls/low ceiling. If it's color casted I'll either try and kill ambient and do some flashed/bounced. If it's just too horrible to get right I'll do what you say below and shoot high ISO with a prime w/custom WB or RAW and balance out later.

Probably the right decision in most cases, but what will you do when your next wedding is indoors with wooden walls and ceiling? I had to switch to shooting with a 50mm and 28mm prime at f/2, praying my high ISO would behave and focus was decent. Took some shots with handheld flash though.

I'd do the same. If flash is available I'd set up speedlights and fire via cybers.

Thousand times yes. Images will become so much better with proper lighting. Don't even try to set up Rembrandt lighting for all the ceremonial shots though. You need to be like a ninja and either have it ready before everyone starts, without having a lightstand with umbrella blocking people in the back or what not.
It's also really handy to have 2 or 3 flashes in case you have to do indoor group shots. Fix your metering in several of these shots so if you need to, you can make a combination of a few faces from multiple group shots.

I guess I'm just trying to say that it was fun. I like my shots at the moment and the clients are happy as well as the people who view them. Now, I'm well aware that it doesn't take much to impress people. And I can go through my photos and critique them like no other. I'm just satisfied that it hasn't been as much as a nightmare as I sometimes read on here.

Good to hear things are working out for you though

Thanks. Things are going well!

TheHoff wrote in post #10766383
What about when it rains the entire day? What about your first mother-in-law from hell that tells you where, what, and when to shoot? What about your first bride that breaks down in tears or pukes 15 minutes before the show? What about when your venue in no way is going to give you enough ambient light for 1/30 sec @ f/1.4 and the priest said no flash? What about 8 Uncle Bob's crowding your way with DSLRs and external flash brackets in front of you, sticking out down the aisle and in every other shot? (My friend had one recently where the guest brought his own remote RF flash triggers and multiple lights.)

Saying weddings aren't that tough after two of them is like a doctor delivering two healthy babies and saying "nothing to that, they just slid right out!"

Break-down crying puking thing is already out of the way. I've had the uncle Bob too at both places.

lol. I know, I know. Maybe this is better wording, "My experience thus far has been favorable. Things might come up but I feel prepared to deal with them. It's not as hard as I thought it would be.

I like the analogy . lol

Roy Mathers wrote in post #10765482
I agree with every word that tim says. After two weddings, you think you're an expert and think that weddings are easy? I photographed many hundreds of weddings over thirty years and still wouldn't say that they are easy! It depends what your standards are.

I agree, you are making a judgment based on two weddings. You haven't shot enough to experience the number of things that could affect your day. You haven't photographed the "difficult" bride or had the disaster wedding we all have nightmares about. I think that there is a big difference between a good photographer and a good wedding photographer.
It's physical and psychological, crowd control, you need to guide the day without being controlling, have a great personality, always thinking of your next shot, depth of field, shutter speed, angles, lighting, focal length, location, get the look you are looking for (know what you are looking for), to flash or not to flash while all the time being cognoscente of the time and how much time you have for this particular segment of the day. It goes on and on.........it's hard.
In my years, I've shot over 1,000 weddings and still, new and different scenarios surface all the time that have to be dealt with. I think photographing weddings is hard if you want good professional results. Like Roy said, it depends on your standards of a good shoot.

Another thing just occurred to me about weddings in general - everybody wants wedding photographs but nobody wants the photographer!

images by Paul wrote in post #10766411
I agree, you are making a judgment based on two weddings. You haven't shot enough to experience the number of things that could affect your day. You haven't photographed the "difficult" bride or had the disaster wedding we all have nightmares about. I think that there is a big difference between a good photographer and a good wedding photographer.
It's physical and psychological, crowd control, you need to guide the day without being controlling, have a great personality, always thinking of your next shot, depth of field, shutter speed, angles, lighting, focal length, location, get the look you are looking for (know what you are looking for), to flash or not to flash while all the time being cognoscente of the time and how much time you have for this particular segment of the day. It goes on and on.........it's hard.
In my years, I've shot over 1,000 weddings and still, new and different scenarios surface all the time that have to be dealt with. I think photographing weddings is hard if you want good professional results. Like Roy said, it depends on your standards of a good shoot.

Understandable. I'm backtracking now trying to explain myself. lol

I know, I know. Maybe this is better wording, "My experience thus far has been favorable. Things might come up but I feel prepared to deal with them. It's not as hard as I thought it would be.

I'm not saying that it won't get hard (and it is hard, I know). And I'm not trying to ruffle the feathers of the ones who have done it a lot. I've lurked a lot and by just reading through the posts on, "Don't get into it" and the "I did my first wedding and I was so unprepared, it was a blur, it was hard" I figured it'd give a little encouragement that if you are ready to do one you are ready. I'm not even bragging about my images. I'm just simply saying, "Hey, it was fun. It wasn't that hard. Maybe some of the things I encountered might be super hard for others. It was pretty breezy, easily worked through, and an overall good experience. I work with people as my salaried job. I have to trouble shoot, work with difficult people, council people, do things on the fly by putting together programs. So the overall event of a wedding is just, well, easier than what I thought it would be."

Sorry to be harsh but your comments in item 1 are very arrogant especially having only done 2 weddings,you have some really hard work weddings to come,Re the photos you have posted well I am sorry but had I taken these I would have binned them the dress is way over exposed the contrast is very harsh and the background very distracting.I went to your website but there are no publicly accessible galleries so I cannot make any further judgements on your work

Upon printing the photos and checking histogram in LR3 the only blown parts are above his head.

Maybe I am getting the cart ahead of the horses and I'll have a horrible time at the next wedding. I'm just wondering why someone can't say, "According to everyone weddings are suppose to be majorly hard and give you a heart attack. From my limited experience (as well as doing other events that are somewhat similar) I don't see why someone should have a heart attack. It's hectic, getting what you want is hard. . . but dealing with people isn't that hard for me. Being in that atmosphere isn't that hard. Dealing with all the crazy things you can conjure up doesn't really bother me and I've even had to deal with some of them even in those weddings (as well as other things).

It might be the first or second rodeo but there are some people who enjoy the ride. I enjoyed doing it. Will something hard come up? Depends on your definition of hard. I guess I just know that most of the hard things comes with the territory. If that's arrogance (I can see "good photos" sounding arrogant) then I guess it is. I feel that I waited until I knew my way around a camera before stepping in to it. I'm not even saying my images are that great. My observation is that it's not as quite as hard as my preconceived notion of wedding photography.