Should I be shooting Adobe RGB?

I just got my 10D, an upgrade from my D60.

I always shoot in RAW mode.
I use Photoshop 7.0

In the past, I left the image in what ever color space it was created.

I view the image using my epson paper profiles.

I use the ICC profiles for the epson paper to print.

Is there any gain in using RGB or should I use the canon standard set?

Hello,

I hope this helps.

[qoute]Q: In the past, I left the image in what ever color space it was created.[/qoute]

A: If you want the most out of your image and HD space is not a issue. Set your camera to Adobe RGB. I will explain why later.

[qoute]Q: I view the image using my epson paper profiles.[/qoute]

A: If you are using Epson Paper stick with Epson ICM profile. It was made for Epson paper. This has noithing to do with your displaying your image on screen. Think of printer profile as if you are airbrush painter. If you airbrush on glass you don't want to much paint coming out of the nozzle as it will cause runs. When you airbrush on watercolor paper you can open the nozzle to spray more more paint onto the surface. Profile in theory are the same thing.

Epson profile was design to work with their type of paper. It could work with other types of paper but a lot of times will not, which will cause your prints to come out flat. Look on the off brand package to see if it is ok to use with your printer. If it does not say anything then you are taking a chance. But there is a solution when using other types of paper. You can get the same print results as using Epson paper. You will have to build your own custom printer profile. You can find out more at inkjetmall.com. Let me know if you need additional information.

[qoute]Is there any gain in using RGB or should I use the canon standard set?[/qoute]

A: I hope this will help you understand a little bit better about RGB.
RGB profile is for your monitor. Printer Profile is a diffrent thing. Printer profile tells how much ink need to be spray onto the paper. 360 dpi uses less ink vs photopaper which uses more ink. I hope this does not blow your mind. But it is real easy. Each input device: Scanner and Digital has its own Profile. Each output device has its own profile. Again if need additonal information let me know.

Here is some information which I think help you understand color space:

-Apple RGB is the dullest and smallest of the three colot spaces and in fact is too small to contain the range of colors that can be printed on a CMYK press (CMYK is for press shops, people that produce catalogs or newspaper etc...).

-Adobe RGB(1998) is a good all-round choice for an RGB working space for many users, because it produces good results with most RGB film recorders and is just large enough to encompass the gamut of most CMYK printing proccess.

-Kodak ProPhoto RGB is a very large color space and in fact has blue and green primaries that are well outside the range of human color vision. By starting with imaginary primaries, ProPhoto RGB provides a huge color gamut, which is great if your're scanning and archiving 48-bits RBG files.

-sRGB color space was designed for low-end consumer color scanners, digital cameras, webimage, and inkjet printers and is unacceptable for high-quality color production because of the extent to which it clips the blue-green part of the spectrum. If you're at all concerned about image quality, never use sRGB for any image that will ever be printed.

Since you have a 10D and you want the best print result use Adobe RGB monitor.

I hope this helps.

David

I use the Proof Setup in Photoshop 7.0
This will match the display to the output of the epson paper.

I was under the impression this has the same effect as converting the image to the epson paper color space, without actually doing it.

I can have an image that is in adobe RGB, then proof it on the screen using different epson paper types.

This is a good point and a very good tool. But this is if your monitor is calibrated correctlly. I see a lot of people make this same mistake or going through heck trying to figure this out (example: why is my printer not printing right? It looks fine on the monitor!! etc...). Believe me I was in the same boat trying to figure out this stuff a year ago. So don't give up I will try to help you as much as I can.

Now Graphic Designers, Photographer, hobbist and Printing shops are paying me to teach them about Color Correction and Color Calibrate there systems. And they work with PhotoShop WoW!! And I just finished a Art College in Advertising Arts a year ago. They did not cover this subject in school and I thought I had to know this for my new job career. Then I found out a lot of Graphic Designers, Photographers and Printers did not know this stuff either. And if they did they kept it a secret. This shock me!!
This stuff is not hard to learn just need someone to guide you in the right direction. Don't give up!! Later this year I will have my website up and running which I will talk about this subject in more detail.

Here is some tips that might help you on your question:

Never trust your monitor. I recommend you buying this book. Photoshop Color Correction ISBN 0-321-12401-4. It is a good book to have.

Never adjust your Espson printer, if you do make sure you save that adjustment under a new name. If you already save the setting on the default settings, reinstall the Epson Software. If you are not sure, just reinstall for GP. Because Epson printer profile and their defaults settings were setup for their type of paper, so there is no need to play with those settings at all. If your color are off and it looks fine on your monitor. This means you adjusted image colors to match your display, which means your monitor is not calibrated correctlly.

Why?

This subject will open an other can of can worms. Reason: There are a lot of Graphic Cards companies that have their own settings drivers, to include all the diffrent monitors, scanners, Printer and Cameras. The software companies like Photoshop can't keep up with these devices. It up to those companies and consumers. That just the way it is.

So I am going to point you to the right direction and it is up to on how you will approach this.

There is three option to color calibrate your monitor to get the most out of your printer:-

1. Use the Adode wizard Gamma Manager. This will get you in the ballpark. So your prints should be fine. But if you are looking to sell your images or in the future then you are going to need to do some investments. Sorry that the way it is.

a.) You can buy that book I mention earlier. It is around $50 and your time to read it. But it will teach how to color correct images by the numbers and make you feel more confident working with your Photos. This book will even teach people that are color blind to color correct photos. This book will give you a better understanding on SRGB, RGB, Adobe RGBs, CMYK and all the other features in PhotoShop. So I recommend this book.

b.) Or if don't want to do all that reading then buy the Pantone ColorVision kits they range from $199 - $414. Go to www.inkjetmall.com for more information. But you will still need to know how to set-up your Color Settings in PhotoShop. But they will have this information in their manuals. They are free to download.

Sorry if this is going beyond and I know you are looking for a simple answer but it does open a can of worms. I am just trying to help you and point you to several option. I hope this helps and other that are reading this message. Also go to www.adobe.com and locate the Expert Center. There you find tons of information and a support forum.
Also try to locate PhotoShop User Magazine. This is a great magazine!!! It will give you some great tips. I could go on and on. But I think this is a good start for you. Wish you luck in your new fun adventure. Just don't try to learning this over night you will burn out. There is to much to learn. It is the same that I can't teach you to be a oil painter overnight. It just takes time and pratice.

Cheers,

David

David,

I am following this post with great interest. I was using a d60 for the past year and editing in photoshop using srgb, then sending the files to my lab which uses a Frontier printer. I just got my 10D...so should I shoot and edit now in Adobe rgb and then send those same files to my printer...or will this mess up my color?

My prints match my monitor, when I use the proof view.

So I must have done something right..

Yes, because Adobe RGB gives you a larger gamut then sRGB. Before you save your files or make any adjustment make sure you have Adobe RGB selected in your Color management. (Edit > Color Settings) Because if you have Apple RGB or sRGB and have been saving your Adobe RGB files. Those files are now sRGB(color has been subtracted).
And do not resave them as Adobe RGB as this might cause banding in your levels (Histogram).
Remember, you can take away color but you can't add that color back.

And in your Epson Advance control panel, make sure you select No Color Adjustment for Adobe RGB. Or it will print out sRGB and you will lose some colors. With other type of printer you will have to search around in your print settings. Sorry I only do Epson. But the theory is the same.

If your files have been saved as sRGB then make sure you have your color space setting to sRGB and when you print select sRGB in your Printers Color Management. For PC user: Page Setup > Properties > Mode = Custom: Advance. I not sure about Apple computers. Don't do Apple, I just eat them, hehehe Just kidding But the the theory applies the same.

You should notice the diffrence in your Gradient colors. sRGB will tend to show a little band effect. Adobe RGB will not.

Note: If you ever notice any band effect in your prints or Lab photos a few thing had happen or you did something (you say, "Me, never"). But then again this is a other can of worms. If someone what to know why this happen then apply to this message and I will try to make it brief.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

David

Great!! Stick with Adobe RGB and read my last message I posted.

Cheers,

David

DavidValdez wrote:
Yes, because Adobe RGB gives you a larger gamut then sRGB. Before you save your files or make any adjustment make sure you have Adobe RGB selected in your Color management. (Edit > Color Settings) Because if you have Apple RGB or sRGB and have been saving your Adobe RGB files. Those files are now sRGB(color has been subtracted).

David's advice has been excellent, but I want to comment on this bit because it is slightly misleading. PS7 (and PS6 - not sure about 5.5) will quite happily work with images that have a different colour space embedded than the default working space that is configured under Edit>Color Settings.

My advice is to ensure that you setting Color Management Policies to "Preserve embedded profiles" and have Profile Mismatches>Asking when opening/pasting and Missing Profiles>Ask when opening all checked.

This means that, if, for example, your working space is set to sRGB and you load a Adobe RGB image from your 10D, you will get a missing profile warning because the FVU does not embed the Adobe RGB profile in the image. At this point you will be able to ASSIGN the Adobe RGB and work away. When you save the image, the Adobe RGB profile will be embedded in the file.

The next time you open the image, you will get a profile mismatch warning because the default is set to sRGB and the image is in Adobe RGB, but you can choose to work in the embedded colour space and work away.

You also have the choice at either time to convert to the working space, but for the reasons David has explained this is a bad plan. I agree with with him the sensible thing to do is have working space set to Adobe RGB, but I would configure color settings as I have advised because you obviously have exsting images in the sRGB space and you don't want to inadvertently convert them to Adobe RGB.

Regards,

I was under the impression that when shooting RAW, I can choose to convert the image into the Adobe RGB colour space, rather than have it set in-camera. No big deal, just that RAW should be the "negative", and it's then up to you how you convert it...

I think some of the answers here are a bit confused. Using a color space with a wider color gamut sounds like a good thing (more is better, right?) but this is not necessarily true. What is important is knowing the color space of the printer or press where your output is being produced. Since Epson printers and most printing presses can't print a gamut as wide as Adobe RGB you are asking for trouble by using this wide-gamut color space.

Let me explain. By using Adobe RGB you will work on your monitor with colors that you will not be able to print. When the images are sent to the printer or to press there will be an attempt to "compress" or limit the colors to those that are within the gamut of the output device. This produces results that are somewhat unpredictable . Thus, you may be better off using a color space that is smaller than Adobe RGB but closer to your output device so that the output is not "compressed" to fit the color space of the printer.

Nope, sorry, don't agree. The most logical alternative to Adobe RGB is sRGB. This is too small a colour space for even the Epson 1280. This link has some comparison gamut plots to illustrate this: http://www.digitalmast​ery.com/color/1280prem​ium.html.

Secondly, the results of convert from a "large" working space to a "smaller" print space are not at all unpredictable. Photoshop provides soft-proofing, so you can see how the colours will be changed and identifies out of gamut colours, so you can "fix" things to suit, if you don't like what the conversion result is.

Working with really wide space may introduce some problems, but as Bruce Fraser discusses here http://www.creativepro​.com/story/feature/858​2.html, there are valid reasons for working in colour spaces wider than Adobe RGB. When I got Adobe Camera Raw, I began converting to ProPhotoRGB, which apparently includes imaginary colours that do not exist anywhere, but my experience so far has been as Bruce says "it's surprisingly well behaved in terms of keeping hues constant as you edit."

Another reference: http://www.microsoft.c​om …igpicture/color​spaces.asp is an article by Rob Galbraith's where he makes a case for using Adobe RGB with your digicam.

Regards,

This has been a terrific tutorial for me:
***************

I have a G2 and an Epson 880. Last month I started to shoot RAW having acquired a 128 meg card. Today was the 1st day that -- thanks to this post -- I ever thought about color management. I read and re-read your notes and then Adobe's help notes, and now I feel that I am making progress.

Here is where I am:

1: I have not calibrared my Daytek monitor

2: I "backed up and copied" my converted my RAW to TIFF images in PS say that I am in 16 bit RGB

3: When I ASSIGN PROFILE (and to my surprise I have an Epson 880 profile option in PS) the screen image lightens excessively. I assumed that this was a preview of my print.

4: So then I looked at converting from RGB Profile to Epson 880. There the dialogue box advised that I was really going from sRGB and my original setting was relative colorimetric. I left that setting alone and converted.

5: I do not seem to have any information that profiles the Glossy Epson paper that I am using !

6: Then I printed two very "woodsy" sunlite winter snow scenes at about 300 pixels/inch @ 5 in. by 7 in. THE RESULTS WERE ALMOST BANG ON THE IMAGE DISPLAYED ON MY MONITOR ! Good luck .. or... good tutorial !?

7:Finally I caught up with your discussion on Proof's. It was hard to tell whether proofs were required --- given my step 3 above .

On close, I learned a pile. It was fun.. I will try to learn more and read further. May soon be time to upgrade my printer to archival inks!

Thank a million.

HOWIE