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Thread started 28 Aug 2010 (Saturday) 05:49
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Great, if not controversial, quote from a great photographer of the 60s

 
neil_r
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Aug 28, 2010 05:49 |  #1

I have just been watching a brilliant documentry about Brian Duffy on the BBC iPlayer (unfortunately only available in the UK). HERE is a link to some of his work.

At one point he is in conversation with David Bailey and he says:

"What amazes me about what we do, did, is that anyone can do it. Anyone can pick up a camera and work to the same level of competence as we did. You can't do that with a violin."

I think that that is brilliant, and insightful, but my guess is that there may be a few who disagree. :-)

If anyone is in the UK it is well worth firing up iPlayer and watching it HERE (external link)

http://www.bbc.co.uk …The_Man_Who_Sho​t_the_60s/ (external link)

26:13 is where the conversation starts.

<<< EDIT >>> I have forund a link to the programme on Vimeo here....

http://vimeo.com/91412​02 (external link)


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Picture ­ North ­ Carolina
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Aug 28, 2010 07:23 |  #2

neil_r wrote in post #10804974 (external link)
"What amazes me about what we do, did, is that anyone can do it. Anyone can pick up a camera and work to the same level of competence as we did. You can't do that with a violin."

I think that that is brilliant, and insightful, but my guess is that there may be a few who disagree.

Not at all (disagree). You simply did not carefully analyze the statement. In fact, I'm not at all sure he put very much logical thought into what he said either.

The relevant part is highlighted: "...work to the same level..."

A violinist who picks up a violin and plays for the first time is not a concert violinist. However, if that persons gains practice and experience playing the violin, i.e., "works", he can become a concert violinist.

A photographer who picks up a camera for the first time and doesn't even understand how to adjust shutter and aperture to cause an accurate exposure is not a good photographer. However, if that person gains practice and experience using the camera, i.e., "works", they can become a competent photographer.

It just takes work. And we all already know that. The same is true for almost any venture in life.


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neil_r
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Aug 28, 2010 09:05 |  #3

Thats great I did not realise you could get the BBC iPlayer in North Carolina, I can never get it when I am in India.


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GtrPlyr
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Aug 28, 2010 09:10 |  #4
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ugh


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Aug 28, 2010 09:12 |  #5

The statement doesn't require any analysis. You've misinterpreted his statement.

What he said was that anyone can pick up a camera and become a competent photographer. He then pointed out that you can't do that with a violin, and he is absolutely right.

Can you imagine a greater exercise in futility than trying to take photographs with a violin? F-holes and f-stops are entirely incompatible.

Mike


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neil_r
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Aug 28, 2010 09:20 |  #6

Mike-DT6 wrote in post #10805454 (external link)
Can you imagine a greater exercise in futility than trying to take photographs with a violin? F-holes and f-stops are entirely incompatible.

Mike


Doh, I overanalised ;-)a


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mpphotography
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Aug 28, 2010 11:39 |  #7

I've played the violin. Trust me, he's right. Any nub can pick up a violin and learn the basics, but you need real talent to get the thing to sound right and produce concert level quality. There's certainly a learning curve to photography (and some will be better than others) but the level of technical and artistic expertise simply doesn't match a concert violinist.

I won't even go into the correlation of being tone-deaf :D


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Aug 28, 2010 12:20 as a reply to  @ mpphotography's post |  #8

A monkey that accidentally drops a camera, triggering the shutter release, can inadvertently produce a great photograph. This is the nature of the mechanics.

Yet, Flicker incontrovertibly proves that great photography is still a rarity.


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neil_r
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Aug 28, 2010 12:28 |  #9

sjones wrote in post #10806138 (external link)
A monkey that accidentally drops a camera, triggering the shutter release, can inadvertently produce a great photograph. This is the nature of the mechanics.

what would happen were he to drop a violin? ;-)a


A complete novice with a camera can produce a photograph
A complete novice with a violin can not produce a tune.


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sjones
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Aug 28, 2010 12:46 |  #10

neil_r wrote in post #10806153 (external link)
what would happen were he to drop a violin? ;-)a


A complete novice with a camera can produce a photograph
A complete novice with a violin can not produce a tune.

Exactly, as opposed to a musical instrument, I used an extreme example to stress that yes, a "complete novice with a camera can produce a photograph."

My point is so what!

The presumed correlation between ease of mechanics and aesthetic quality is not so simple. You can argue this all you want, but the vast majority of photographs that I see are unimpressive, including my own.

I've got about a 10 percent keeper rate, and I'm not talking about technical crap, like exposure or focus. And I'm not rushing things either. Since May, I've gone through only four rolls of film.

If I spent as much time learning the violin as I have learning photography, I would possibly be a bettor violinists than photographer.


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neil_r
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Aug 28, 2010 12:54 |  #11

"So what" is a valid view, I was just interested by the fact that two mould breaking photographers of the 60s, Duffy & Bailey, thought it interesting enough to be chatting about.

Both went to art school and had an education in fine art before they picked up a camera. When Duffy was asked why he did not pursue fine art (painting) he said "Because I realised that the people who produced great paintings were geniuses, I picked up a camera and thought, this is easy"

I am not saying he is right, or that I necessarily agree with him, but whatever way you cut it, he was a great photographer.


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Aug 28, 2010 13:12 as a reply to  @ neil_r's post |  #12

The equipment is even easier to use now but the real trick is the vision. Its the vision and the ability to capture that vision that is the infinitely difficult part. Yeah anyone can push the button and get a reasonable image under average conditions but the mojo is usually in those conditions that fall out of average.

Heres what a couple of the TRULY greats had to say about it.

"The photographer’s most important and likewise most difficult task is not learning to manage his camera, or to develop, or to print. It is learning to see photographically – that is, learning to see his subject matter in terms of the capacities of his tools and processes, so that he can instantaneously translate the elements and values in a scene before him into the photograph he wants to make."
Edward Weston

"Photography is a medium of formidable contradictions. It is both ridiculously easy and almost impossibly difficult. It is easy because its technical rudiments can readily be mastered by anyonwith a few simple instructions. It is difficult because, while while the artist working in any other medium begins with a blank surface and gradually brings his conception into being, the photographer is the only imagemaker who begins with the picture completed. His emotions, his knowledge, and his native talent are brought into focus and fixed beyond recall the moment the shutter of his camera has closed."
Edward Steichen

"For us the camera is a tool, the extension of our eye, not a pretty little mechanical toy. It is sufficient that we should feel at ease with the camera best adapted for our purpose. Adjustments of the camera – such as setting the aperture and the speed – should become reflexes, like changing gear in a car. The real problem is one of intelligence and sensitivity."
Henri Cartier-Bresson

"I have often thought that if photography were difficult in the true sense of the term -meaning that the creation of a simple photograph would entail as much time and effort as the production of a good watercolor or etching - there would be a vast improvement in total output. The sheer ease with which we can produce a superficial image often leads to creative disaster."
Ansel Adams

The technique has always bee the easy part. Its the vision and the expression of that vision that is so difficult and making images like only you can make and having the ability and the courage to see that, capture it and show it. The hardest thing in becoming a great photographer is truly finding your own voice.




  
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Aug 28, 2010 13:13 |  #13

neil_r wrote in post #10804974 (external link)
"What amazes me about what we do, did, is that anyone can do it. Anyone can pick up a camera and work to the same level of competence as we did. You can't do that with a violin."

I'm just going to say that's wrong. You can't hand a camera to anyone and have them taking pictures to the same level. It is easier to teach someone the technical bits of photography vs. a violin (or most any musical instrument), but to have them go out and be at the same level as a big-time, well known pro isn't nearly that easy. Even if you give someone all the tools they need, they may not have the eye for composition, the ability to work with a subject, or the perfect timing for the moment, etc.

My cousin can play a few different instruments - and play them well - but only for music that is written out. He can't sound good (consistently, anyway) when he tries to improvise. This is the same with photography; someone can know how to do the technical bits and get technically good pictures, but to say "anyone" can go out and perform to the level of a pro is just not right.


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neil_r
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Aug 28, 2010 13:13 |  #14

Here is a link to the programme that should be internationally available

http://vimeo.com/91412​02 (external link)

26:13 is where the conversation starts.


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neil_r
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Aug 28, 2010 13:24 |  #15

bjyoder wrote in post #10806370 (external link)
I'm just going to say that's wrong.

In your opinion that is wrong and I am happy to accept that, Duffy has an opinion that differs from yours (as do I) and I hope you find that equally acceptable.


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Great, if not controversial, quote from a great photographer of the 60s
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