HELP needed for flash football

So after doing a lot of research on this site, I decided to bite the bullet, buy a flash bracket, sync cord and try my hand at using the flash at this weeks game. I mounted the flash about 18" above the camera and started with the flash in ETTL mode 0 flash compensation. I used my 7D, 70-200 2.8, 1.4 converter, and a 580exII flash. My beginning settings were f/4, ISO 800 w/ 1/250. This left the images underexposed and the flash would not reach to the center of the field. I adjusted my flash settings to be +1 2/3 w/ ISO up to 3200. Still found images under or over exposed w/ a lot of motion blur. It also seemed like the colors seemed to change, probably due to my WB. I tried auto and custom WB.

Any help you can give so I can make this flash work would be greatly appreciated.

#1 QB standing in the center of the field. 1/200, f/4.0, ISO Speed 2000, Flash compensation 1

Can't see the EXIF data, so not sure what mode you were in. You should be in manual, not Av or Tv. Keep your shutter speed at or below your sync speed. You do not want to use HSS. This extends the flash duration and causes your flash to work harder and waste batteries.

You said you mounted it 18 inches above camera. Are you sure it was aligned properly (i.e. illuminating the same area you are focusing on?). What was the ambient exposure, for it looks like you are getting too much ambient lighting mixed in as well, except for the last few that the action was closer.

Are you using a monopod? If so,you might try mounting the flash on the monopod 12-18" below the lens. Try M, 1/250, f/4, ISO 3200, FEC +1.

Gatorboy wrote in post #10935873
Can't see the EXIF data, so not sure what mode you were in. You should be in manual, not Av or Tv. Keep your shutter speed at or below your sync speed. You do not want to use HSS. This extends the flash duration and causes your flash to work harder and waste batteries.

You said you mounted it 18 inches above camera. Are you sure it was aligned properly (i.e. illuminating the same area you are focusing on?). What was the ambient exposure, for it looks like you are getting too much ambient lighting mixed in as well, except for the last few that the action was closer.

I was shooting in Manual and I kept the ss at 1/250 or below and 1/500 or below if I was in high sync mode.

As far as alignment goes, I tried my best and played around with the flash because I wasn't sure if I was shooting over the players when I stood, but I had the same issues while kneeling. When I switched to ambient, I was shooting at f/2.8, ISO 6400, 1/500 or 1/640.

I am using a monopod and I will try mounting below. As far as your settings, that is basically what I used w/ it mounted above and the flash wasn't reaching to capture mid field action.

Chris the short of it is.....it is not that easy. I think most people just assume you throw a flash on, provide your own light, and you get great images.

I have found there is a very small sweet spot in your balance of flash and ambient. I'm constantly chimpping and adjusting things the whole game.

As you have found ETTL is not perfect but I still think it is the most consistent. I very rarely ever go past +1 (usually +1/3-+2/3) and have no problems shooting all the way across the field. What zoom and metering are you shooting at on your flash?

People that just throw out settings aren't there and have no idea what exact conditions are. Two weeks ago I was F4, 800 ISO, 300s, +0 FEC. This week I was F2.8, 1000 ISO, 250s, +2/3 most the game. This weeks field was very dark ( F2.8, 6400, 200s for ambient) I posted some on my FaceBook page, link in my sig.

It takes some time to get it dialed in. Also favor a little low over high when you are angling your flash.

Try this. Shoot the camera in Manual mode. Set your ISO and aperture so that your exposure is two stops below ambient. If the camera does not default to the flash sync shutter speed required by the body then set it for that. I believe that is 1/250 for the 7D. Put the flash in ETTL and manually set the zoom for its longest length. In the case of an 580ex II that is 105mm. If you do not think you have the flash centered then put on a wider lens and take test photo. You should be able to determine whether everything is okay.

With those setting I can easily overcome stadium lights to get a good white balance out to at least 40 yards and 50 to 60 is possible with some small adjustments in post processing with the 580exII.

Thank you for the comments.

Dan

Make no mistake I knew this would be a learning venture for me. Your shots looks fantastic so you have definately figured it out. I hope to work my way toward getting shots like yours.

I was in ETTL with auto zoom. But after reading John's suggestion it makes sense that I was wrong to have auto zoom. I will be heading out to the late practice this Tuesday to try again. Hopefully as the season progresses I will be able to dial everything in.

One more question which I'm not sure about because I am not very good with the flash even on still objects. Should I set my WB for flash or do I use a custom WB for the stadium lights as I did in these photos?

Thank you again to everyone for the help.

I didn't mean you in general Chris. I've tried custom WB and seem to get the same results with just setting it on auto and deal with it in LR.

Yes just set zoom at 105mm and leave it.

A lot can be done in post as well. What are you using?

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I use LR3 for PP. I do appreciate your help with how to dial this in. I have been shooting ambient since last year and I always want my shots to get better which is why I'm trying flash. I really like how it makes the colors pop and how it fills in the face masks.

Dan-o wrote in post #10937879
Chris the short of it is.....it is not that easy. I think most people just assume you throw a flash on, provide your own light, and you get great images.

I have found there is a very small sweet spot in your balance of flash and ambient. I'm constantly chimpping and adjusting things the whole game.

As you have found ETTL is not perfect but I still think it is the most consistent. I very rarely ever go past +1 (usually +1/3-+2/3) and have no problems shooting all the way across the field. What zoom and metering are you shooting at on your flash?

People that just throw out settings aren't there and have no idea what exact conditions are. Two weeks ago I was F4, 800 ISO, 300s, +0 FEC. This week I was F2.8, 1000 ISO, 250s, +2/3 most the game. This weeks field was very dark ( F2.8, 6400, 200s for ambient) I posted some on my FaceBook page, link in my sig.

It takes some time to get it dialed in. Also favor a little low over high when you are angling your flash.

Danny's flashed football shots are always some of my favorites, so heed his advice.

Looking at your pictures above, my first impression is that your ISO is too high, so the flash isn't able to overpower the ambient.

Another clue is the lack of shadow behind the player, so your flash isn't enough to overpower ambient.

But that's easy to fix if you just drop ISO. Usually 400-800 works fine. 2000 sounds way too high.

I don't have a 7D, but all of my other cameras (1D3, 5D, and T1i) have a light meter in the viewfinder. There's a little tick mark for the flash exposure (it moves a tick when you adjust FEC). And there's another tick mark that indicates the light level when you half-press the shutter button. Just make sure these tick marks are 2 to 3 stops apart from each other. You can adjust ISO or aperture to move the ambient tick.

Another neat tip is that after a shot, the flash tick mark in the viewfinder will disappear until the flash is fully recharged and ready to fire. No more looking to see if the red light is re-lit on the EX.

Those aren't mine Clarence.

I know. The pics are Chris's (OP).

Clarence

Thanks for the suggestions. I looked at my 7D and I don't have a separate tick for the FEC. I only have one for ambient exposure. When my flash is on w/ FEC I only see an icon in the view finder.

I started my ISO at 800 but still had very dark images....Now I think that was because I had the wrong settings on the flash. LIve and learn. That's why I like this site. I have learned a lot about different techniques from people, like yourself, who take very nice shots.

Thanks for the info. I will practice a bit more before this weeks game and take all info here to see what I can come up with.

Ahh I read it wrong Clarence.

Yes as Clarence said lower your iso. That is the whole reason you are using flash.

Also as Clarence points out different bodies act a little different. I shoot a little different with my MIIn then I do with my MIII.

Chris try to shoot in manual with your flash for a bit. This will at least take out the possible problems with just getting bad metering with your flash.Try 1/4 to 1/2 power.

Chimp, zoom in real close and look for ghosting as well.