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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 20 Sep 2010 (Monday) 04:46
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Full frame - is it everything it's cracked up to be?

 
Ross_Curtis
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Sep 20, 2010 04:46 |  #1

I am in search of ultimate IQ (even though I never do anything more than view them on the PC and print off the occasional image), which is why I've gone down the route of L primes (Some people say these lenses are wasted on a crop body), the next logical step is a move to FF.
*
As with any product; owners will always sing its praises, people with FF will swear its a huge improvement on any crop body.* People with crop cameras will aspire to
move to FF, therefore, creating a level of desire as well as giving people the lure of lifting your images to a new level.
*
There are many examples in the lens sample forum of images taken with XX lens and the 5D II which are stunning.* I've seen some (but certainly nowhere near as many) which are very impressive taken with a crop body.* Is this down to some 5D owners having a higher level of PP skills?
*
I've heard many people say the difference between the 7D and 5D isn't that great and in many circumstances you'll not notice any difference.* Others will totally contradict this.*
Recently I moved from a 40D to a 7D hoping the IQ would be a huge leap forward, in reality the difference wasn't that huge, of course camera technology has moved on, but close inspection of the results (at low ISO) shows minimal difference, yet I've heard people say the 7D IS a massive leap forward from the 40D.
*
By moving to full frame will I see similar IQ gains to that of the 40D to 7D I experienced? Not an obvious comparison I know.*
*
If I'm not going to see 'that much' of an improvement will I be better off sticking with the 7D and adding the Ziess 50MP I so desire.*
On balance I'll probably get more out of buying an additional lens than I would upgrading the camera.
*
Decisions, decisions.
*


6D | 24L II | 50MP | 85L II | 200L II | 16-35L F4 IS | Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 | Markings Q10 |

  
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xarqi
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Sep 20, 2010 05:07 |  #2

I think you'll get more out of practising with what you have.
The difference between a "ho-hum" image, and something stellar is almost never a consequence of the equipment used.
If you are searching for the ultimate in image quality, upgrade yourself.




  
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kcbrown
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Sep 20, 2010 05:21 |  #3

Ross_Curtis wrote in post #10941448 (external link)
By moving to full frame will I see similar IQ gains to that of the 40D to 7D I experienced? Not an obvious comparison I know.

Not likely at this point. The 7D's resolution is close enough to that of the 5Dmk2 that the detail retention differences will be subtle after you properly postprocess your 7D images (they require more sharpening than those from the 5Dmk2, but that has the effect of bringing the detail back unless you do it very, very wrong).

What full frame will primarily give you is extra depth of field latitude, which you can trade (by going shallower) for better high ISO performance (but the 5Dmk2 has some nasty horizontal banding at very high ISOs, so keep that in mind if the 5Dmk2 is the specific camera you're considering). But if you try to take exactly the same picture (same depth of field, same shutter speed, to achieve the same tonal values in the shot) in exactly the same circumstances with both, you won't see any differences worth talking about (in fact, the 7D may wind up with a slight advantage at higher ISOs in that case). A thread comparing landscape shots between the two can be found here: https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=913638

If I'm not going to see 'that much' of an improvement will I be better off sticking with the 7D and adding the Ziess 50MP I so desire.

Probably, although even that might get you as much of an improvement as you might hope for, depending on the lenses you already have.

Once you get to the level of "L" primes and a sensor such as the one on the 7D, you are entering the realm where significant additional image quality cannot be had by choice of gear, unless you're talking about things like strobes. At that point, improvements to you photographic technique are the only way you'll manage to eke out any significant image quality improvements.


"There are some things that money can't buy, but they aren't Ls and aren't worth having" -- Shooter-boy
Canon: 2 x 7D, Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS, 55-250 IS, Sigma 8-16, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4, other assorted primes, and a 430EX.
Nikon: D750, D600, 24-85 VR, 50 f/1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, Tamron 24-70 VC, Tamron 70-300 VC.

  
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NatDeroxL7
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Sep 20, 2010 06:13 |  #4

I found the biggest difference going from 50D to 5DII was ISO performance and shallower DOF.

Both of which were big improvements, as I am keen on both of those.

I think that people who shoot @ or over ISO 800, and people who like shallower DOF find the greatest contentment in the 35mm format over APS-C.

People who like deeper DOF and better AF performance, shooting sports, feature sets, compactness, etc., will not be as excited by the differences.

Happiness comes from the gear matching you, not from the gear's statistical excellence.


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rklepper
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Sep 20, 2010 06:18 |  #5

FF is a totally different experience. However, I still need and use my crop 7D when it is called for. Best of both worlds in my opinion, 7D and 5DII. Of course that is short of a 1 series, but I am not sure how they would be for travel.


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DStanic
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Sep 20, 2010 06:25 |  #6

I noticed a good jump in IQ (especially having great results out of the camera) not needing to PP as much as with the 30D or 40D. In the lens image archive threads that I subscribe to the 7D certainly looks better than the 40D, but I can not say how it directly compares to a 5D series in regards to sharpness or "pop".


Sony A6000, 16-50PZ, 55-210, 35mm 1.8 OSS
Canon 60D, 30D
Tamron 28-75 2.8, Tamron 17-35, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 85mm 1.8

  
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Ianfp
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Sep 20, 2010 06:44 |  #7

I really like the quality of files from the 5D2. I have made my own comparisons with files from a 7D and I admit that in some cases the difference is marginal. I too want the best IQ possible without moving to a 1D series and I think the 5D2 serves that purpose. However, in the hands of a better photographer than me, I am sure images from a 7D could look better.


Ian
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windpig
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Sep 20, 2010 06:56 |  #8

Ianfp wrote in post #10941707 (external link)
I really like the quality of files from the 5D2. I have made my own comparisons with files from a 7D and I admit that in some cases the difference is marginal. I too want the best IQ possible without moving to a 1D series and I think the 5D2 serves that purpose. However, in the hands of a better photographer than me, I am sure images from a 7D could look better.

I agree with you.


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TeamSpeed
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Sep 20, 2010 08:10 |  #9

xarqi wrote in post #10941483 (external link)
I think you'll get more out of practising with what you have.
The difference between a "ho-hum" image, and something stellar is almost never a consequence of the equipment used.
If you are searching for the ultimate in image quality, upgrade yourself.

+1

NatDeroxL7 wrote in post #10941627 (external link)
I found the biggest difference going from 50D to 5DII was ISO performance and shallower DOF.

Both of which were big improvements, as I am keen on both of those.

I think that people who shoot @ or over ISO 800, and people who like shallower DOF find the greatest contentment in the 35mm format over APS-C.

People who like deeper DOF and better AF performance, shooting sports, feature sets, compactness, etc., will not be as excited by the differences.

Happiness comes from the gear matching you, not from the gear's statistical excellence.

The 7D has improved the APS-C performance greatly over the 50D, and I agree with your ending comments. Learning your equipment and using it in the best way you can is a bit part of the enjoyment too.

Ianfp wrote in post #10941707 (external link)
I really like the quality of files from the 5D2. I have made my own comparisons with files from a 7D and I admit that in some cases the difference is marginal. I too want the best IQ possible without moving to a 1D series and I think the 5D2 serves that purpose. However, in the hands of a better photographer than me, I am sure images from a 7D could look better.

I agree, the 5D2 gives new life to old lenses, and certainly adds a great tool to the arsenal. Its high ISO is better than the 7D by just around 1 stop. I ended up doing my own ISO comparison (not IQ test, just ISO) as well. I like doing body and lens comparisons, it is a sickness I have to combat! :)

https://photography-on-the.net …=930196&highlig​ht=7d+5dii


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nickphoto
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Sep 20, 2010 08:13 |  #10

Full frame magic is real. I don't think i'd ever go back.


Gear: D3s, D700, 14-24, 24-70, 70-200VR1, 35mm 1.4g, 50mm 1.4d, 85mm 1.4g, 60mm 2.8 macro, sb26, sb800, Sb900, PW +2's, PW Flex, PW Mini.
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MNUplander
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Sep 20, 2010 10:12 |  #11

Im a landscape/occasional wildlife photographer and FF didnt really suit me. The increases in IQ were marginal, I dont particularily care about shallow DOF, and most of the time Im at base ISO's so high ISO performance isnt all that important to me either (90% landscapes, 10% wildlife).

The extra reach and responsiveness of the crop format is much more important for me. Doesnt mean that FF is not right for someone else, but for my style of shooting the crop format just fits better. Just doesnt make sense to lose things important to my style of shooting to gain small improvements with a gap made narrower by PP. Blown up to 20x30, I have just as many nice crop images as FF from my tests and they look equally nice.


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shmoogy
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Sep 20, 2010 10:39 |  #12

DStanic wrote in post #10941649 (external link)
I noticed a good jump in IQ (especially having great results out of the camera) not needing to PP as much as with the 30D or 40D. In the lens image archive threads that I subscribe to the 7D certainly looks better than the 40D, but I can not say how it directly compares to a 5D series in regards to sharpness or "pop".

It's very difficult to compare differences in IQ through web sized shots, as well as through pictures taken by different people.

In general, you will see a higher caliber of shots in the more expensive lens/camera sections, because the people who generally purchase that level of gear have a high(er) level of skill and/or experience. That's not to say that people who use less expensive equipment take less stunning photographs, I am not saying that at all, do not take that from what I've said.

That being said, I'm really tempted to pick up a 5Dc due to how many times I've seen somebody say: "When I opened up the first RAW image, I said to myself wow" or some variation of that.


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Canon 1000D

  
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yoyodunno
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Sep 20, 2010 10:43 |  #13

xarqi wrote in post #10941483 (external link)
I think you'll get more out of practising with what you have.
The difference between a "ho-hum" image, and something stellar is almost never a consequence of the equipment used.
If you are searching for the ultimate in image quality, upgrade yourself.

Quoted for truth.


http://www.flickr.com/​photos/n00b_photos/ (external link)
I love color.

  
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poah
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Sep 20, 2010 10:49 |  #14

no you'll actually see an improvement in IQ lol

Ross_Curtis wrote in post #10941448 (external link)
By moving to full frame will I see similar IQ gains to that of the 40D to 7D I experienced? Not an obvious comparison I know.*
*Decisions, decisions.
*


Free printer profiles PM me for info

  
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roszell
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Sep 20, 2010 10:51 |  #15

Yes it is, especially if you have nice glass already. I've gone from an XSi -> 5D and it was a very nice step up. Despite having about the same number of megapixels, the 5D captures way more detail, has better ISO performance, and will produce a thinner dof given the same framing + lens + aperture compared to a crop. Paired with the 135L I just bought it is MAGIC. I have worked on upgrading myself through classes and practice, but some shots are not possible without the right equipment.


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