60D vs 7D- 18 mp debate-

So i am getting to the point of upgrading my 450D, as more and more people are asking for Sr. Pics/ Weddings/ Family pics, etc......I am at the point where i want more out of my camera, but I am maxed out on growth.

I have been looking/waiting for reviews on the 60D and also 7D. If we are just talking image quality, are these both similar being cropped sensors and 18mp?

60D good points
screen
price
better build than xsi
SD/SDHC cards


7D good points
Burst rate
better build than 60D and xsi


How do these two compare with High ISO? Video? AF? IQ?

I currently have $600 US to play with and counting. The 60D is interesting to me because of the price... i would be able to probably keep my Rebel and pick up by end of year. The 7D would take some more time/ selling a lens and/or my rebel...leaving me without a backup.

As soon as I hit the part about not having a backup, in my opinion, was an immediate deal breaker and would longer be a consideration.

What kind of pictures is it the 12 Megapixel 450D can't give you, but you expect to get from an 18 Megapixel camera instead?

johnandbentley wrote in post #10942863
for Sr. Pics/ Weddings/ Family pics, etc......

i dont know if this is out of the question but how about a 5D classic... Perfect for the type of photography you said you do....

gotaudi wrote in post #10943097
i dont know if this is out of the question but how about a 5D classic... Perfect for the type of photography you said you do....

This. If you are mainly focusing on portraits and the like, a 5D will serve you better. The 7D is great (I own one) and it can hold it's own for portraits/landscape, but a full frame will typically serve you better for what you say you shoot - for cheaper than a 7D as well.

apersson850 wrote in post #10942918
What kind of pictures is it the 12 Megapixel 450D can't give you, but you expect to get from an 18 Megapixel camera instead?

Indeed....I think you need some better glass, Not a new body...$600 will buy you at least one better lens (You could get a Tamron 17-50 to replace that horrid 28-80 i see you own)

apersson850 wrote in post #10942918
What kind of pictures is it the 12 Megapixel 450D can't give you, but you expect to get from an 18 Megapixel camera instead?

Both of these said cameras are an upgrade from xsi (build, burst rate, AF, etc)

I am not saying that if i go from 12 mp to 18mp...poof, my images are better.... but in looking at the 60D and 7D, would IQ be the same between cameras, being that they both are crop sensored 18.1mp cameras? If different, what plays a part in that?

KenjiS wrote in post #10943192
Indeed....I think you need some better glass, Not a new body...$600 will buy you at least one better lens (You could get a Tamron 17-50 to replace that horrid 28-80 i see you own)

LOL, that horride 28-80 stays in the bag because at lower fstops it is quite useable for landscape. Im not opposed to upgrading by getting a 17-50 at some point and maybe a better 50mm.... but i also want to upgrade my body to something with more options(better high ISO, better burst rate, bigger image, better AF, etc.)

With the 450D, I am limited with poor IQ at higher ISO... Its also fairly dainty in my big hands

johnandbentley wrote in post #10943230
LOL, that horride 28-80 stays in the bag because at lower fstops it is quite useable for landscape. Im not opposed to upgrading by getting a 17-50 at some point and maybe a better 50mm.... but i also want to upgrade my body to something with more options(better high ISO, better burst rate, bigger image, better AF, etc.)

Eh sorry didnt mean to sound insulting or anything

12mp is more than sufficient for most things, I can understand the other desires but im also just trying to warn you that 18mp sensors also require REALLY good glass, they will make lenses you previously loved into ones that you find soft and unacceptable..

A 5D would be a decent choice with that said, However you'd have to swap some lenses around and may not like the "feel" of them on your 5D

Redundancy is needed for professional work...

My advice is to get a camera body with which you are comfortable and then get a top-notch mid-range zoom lens. Now, if you are shooting weddings or other non-repeatable events, do this all over again: a second body with which you are comfortable and a second lens in the mid-range area. Preferably with f/2.8 constant apertures for the lenses.

IMO, you would be better served having a pair of xxxD cameras (or your 450D and a 40D or 50D) and two top-line mid-range zoom lenses than buying a 7D and limping along with your present junky mid-range zoom.

The mid range zoom, like a hammer to a carpenter, is a basic tool for professional photography. The basic format for weddings is still photography and you need a good setup. Video is nice, but not at the expense of quality still photography.

The top-line mid-range zoom would also be good for any other type of photography. However, if you are not shooting events, a second duplicate outfit (while recommended) is not as critical. You can often get along with zooms that overlap. My basic mid-range zoom for a recent trip to China was my 17-55mm f/2.8 IS. I did not bring a second mid-range zoom but, I did bring a 12-24mm f/4 Tokina. The 38mm equivalent long side of this lens would have allowed me to still get coverage if my 17-55mm went down.

KenjiS wrote in post #10943241
Eh sorry didnt mean to sound insulting or anything

12mp is more than sufficient for most things, I can understand the other desires but im also just trying to warn you that 18mp sensors also require REALLY good glass, they will make lenses you previously loved into ones that you find soft and unacceptable..

A 5D would be a decent choice with that said, However you'd have to swap some lenses around and may not like the "feel" of them on your 5D

no insult taken... i just thought it was funny is all and i agree with you=)

RPCrowe wrote in post #10943330
My advice is to get a camera body with which you are comfortable and then get a top-notch mid-range zoom lens. Now, if you are shooting weddings or other non-repeatable events, do this all over again: a second body with which you are comfortable and a second lens in the mid-range area. Preferably with f/2.8 constant apertures for the lenses.

IMO, you would be better served having a pair of xxxD cameras (or your 450D and a 40D or 50D) and two top-line mid-range zoom lenses than buying a 7D and limping along with your present junky mid-range zoom.

The mid range zoom, like a hammer to a carpenter, is a basic tool for professional photography. The basic format for weddings is still photography and you need a good setup. Video is nice, but not at the expense of quality still photography.

The top-line mid-range zoom would also be good for any other type of photography. However, if you are not shooting events, a second duplicate outfit (while recommended) is not as critical. You can often get along with zooms that overlap. My basic mid-range zoom for a recent trip to China was my 17-55mm f/2.8 IS. I did not bring a second mid-range zoom but, I did bring a 12-24mm f/4 Tokina. The 38mm equivalent long side of this lens would have allowed me to still get coverage if my 17-55mm went down.

These are good points thank you! I basically have ultra wide, then gap from 16-50 and again from 50-70....

KenjiS wrote in post #10943241
...I can understand the other desires but im also just trying to warn you that 18mp sensors also require REALLY good glass, they will make lenses you previously loved into ones that you find soft and unacceptable...

Really? How about turning this argument around... if you buy a body with an 18MP sensor, it won't be the limiting factor for stunning high resolution images! I don't understand why making your camera body better than your lenses is bad, or why it makes your pictures worse...

Megapixels are pretty darn near irrelevant to image quality. The 7D will give you a higher quality image, especially at higher ISO.

It would be hard to argue that either body is "better" than the 16.1MP 1D Mark IV.

RTPVid wrote in post #10943620
Really? How about turning this argument around... if you buy a body with an 18MP sensor, it won't be the limiting factor for stunning high resolution images! I don't understand why making your camera body better than your lenses is bad, or why it makes your pictures worse...

Just more agony for the pixel-peepers.