Is full-frame really that dramaticly better?

i love my camera, having the larger frame really lets me dial in my perspective. having more DOF latitude is refreshing. when i used my friends cameras in the past, i never really was that impressed. while the images were always sharp and nice and professional, there seemed to be something missing. i never really truly understood that a smaller sensor was the cause of the constraint until i got my 35mm frame size digital camera. when shooting standard 35mm, the frame size and DOF are a given and until one tries to recreate some creative 35mm or 645 images with a cropped sensor, the difference is truly apparent.

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krb wrote in post #11044859
If your criteria for "pro spec" is the number of AF points then it's no wonder your conclusions are so inaccurate.

I will then take the built in grip option which whoops apsc doesn't have.

corkneyfonz wrote in post #11044939
I will then take the built in grip option which whoops apsc doesn't have.

So a grip is the qualifier for a pro body?

TeamSpeed wrote in post #11040623
The 5D classic looks crisper because of the very weak AA filter that lies between the lens and the sensor. Also at ISO 3200, I actually put the edge to the 7D over the 5Dc, below that the venerable original 5d does better. The edge is very slight though, they are really quite close, close enough to never be able to tell on a print. Having all 3 at the same time allows for some very involved testing time!

I agree, did some quick tests with my 5d and a friends 7d and 7d looked better at and above ISO3200. I was surprised by ISO6400 on 7d.

Couple of things against FF.

1. Slower max sync speed - Comes into play when doing ambient/flash. Even when using HyperSync with my PW mini/Flex, I can't push past 1/250 on my 5d while my 1dmk2 can easily to 1/500.

2. When shooting groups you need to stop down more so if inside you need more fash power or higher ISO.

corkneyfonz wrote in post #11044939
I will then take the built in grip option which whoops apsc doesn't have.

Built-in grip? You're the one holding up the D300 as a paragon of pro spec.

bobbyz wrote in post #11044991
Couple of things against FF.

1. Slower max sync speed - Comes into play when doing ambient/flash. Even when using HyperSync with my PW mini/Flex, I can't push past 1/250 on my 5d while my 1dmk2 can easily to 1/500.

if you set the flash to high speed sync, (on my 430ex anyway) that limitation goes away then the shutter speed can be set much higher All the way to 1/2000..

sabianq wrote in post #11045145
if you set the flash to high speed sync, (on my 430ex anyway) that limitation goes away then the shutter speed can be set much higher All the way to 1/2000..

True, but with greatly reduced flash power and reduced battery life.

sabianq wrote in post #11044930
i love my camera, having the larger frame really lets me dial in my perspective. having more DOF latitude is refreshing. when i used my friends cameras in the past, i never really was that impressed. while the images were always sharp and nice and professional, there seemed to be something missing. i never really truly understood that a smaller sensor was the cause of the constraint until i got my 35mm frame size digital camera. when shooting standard 35mm, the frame size and DOF are a given and until one tries to recreate some creative 35mm or 645 images with a cropped sensor, the difference is truly apparent.

Except that nothing is in focus in that attached image of the kid and flowers. Many people shoot an image, and think that an object might be in focus (flowers) just because the other objects in the fore/background are out of focus (kid). You might need to get your lens calibrated, as those flowers are not in focus, or if you have a 5DII, try changing the micro-adjust settings for that lens.

However, if you grabbed focus then recomposed it will come out blurry like that. Or if you are using a 3rd party cheap wide-aperture lens, then that will happen too, but even a Sigma at 1.4 will be sharper than that.

corkneyfonz wrote in post #11044939
I will then take the built in grip option which whoops apsc doesn't have.

I do not see what advantage a built-in grip has over an addon grip. It is not like addon grips are loose or juggle around. A camera having an addon grip or builtin grip would never affect my buying decision.

bobbyz wrote in post #11044991
Couple of things against FF.

1. Slower max sync speed - Comes into play when doing ambient/flash. Even when using HyperSync with my PW mini/Flex, I can't push past 1/250 on my 5d while my 1dmk2 can easily to 1/500.

2. When shooting groups you need to stop down more so if inside you need more fash power or higher ISO.

#1 - that's a user error, as explained by previous poster sabianq
#2 - since you can go up to 800 or even 1,000 ISO many times on the 5D or 5DII without seeing any grain then I do not see a problem here. Also, if shooting groups you should be using a flash anyway, which will prevent you from having to up the ISO at all if you are performing proper lighting techniques, which for a group would be: 2 flashes on poles at least 2x to 3x the height of the tallest person in the group (depending on if you have stairs or not), 45-65 degree down angle, with poles 45 degrees diagonally out from group edges by 10-15ft, with umbrellas - will give you perfect lighting for any group

crobs808 wrote in post #11045278
Except that nothing is in focus in that attached image of the kid and flowers. Many people shoot an image, and think that an object might be in focus (flowers) just because the other objects in the fore/background are out of focus (kid). You might need to get your lens calibrated, as those flowers are not in focus, or if you have a 5DII, try changing the micro-adjust settings for that lens.

However, if you grabbed focus then recomposed it will come out blurry like that. Or if you are using a 3rd party cheap wide-aperture lens, then that will happen too, but even a Sigma at 1.4 will be sharper than that.

Since there is nothing in focus within what appears to the focus plane in the bouquet, I have to assume this was nothing more than hand shake. Just a guess though, no attached exif.

You can really make that out on the boy's thumb, it appears that there was camera movement vertically during the shot.

sabianq wrote in post #11045145
if you set the flash to high speed sync, (on my 430ex anyway) that limitation goes away then the shutter speed can be set much higher All the way to 1/2000..

Only if using canon eTTL flashes not with studio strobes.

crobs808 wrote in post #11045320
#1 - that's a user error, as explained by previous poster sabianq

have you used studio strobe outside?

Sure but you loose high ISO advantage somewhat. If I need to stop down 1-2 stops more, I need more power from flash/strobe or higher ISO.

crobs808 wrote in post #11045278
Except that nothing is in focus in that attached image of the kid and flowers. Many people shoot an image, and think that an object might be in focus (flowers) just because the other objects in the fore/background are out of focus (kid). You might need to get your lens calibrated, as those flowers are not in focus, or if you have a 5DII, try changing the micro-adjust settings for that lens.

However, if you grabbed focus then recomposed it will come out blurry like that. Or if you are using a 3rd party cheap wide-aperture lens, then that will happen too, but even a Sigma at 1.4 will be sharper than that.

alas, the lens i used was a manual focus lens and i actually kinda like the "soft focus effect " of the roses in this paticular image.. seems linda dreamy to me. lol
but you are correct, nothing is in focus. however, the image IMO shows the DOF range with the 35mm sensor.

here is another image from the same collection
(the EXIF data is absent because i dont have the origional on my hard drive, i had to take the image from my facebook account)

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