good lenses or good camera first?

I'm new to SLR photography, only having done some p/s pictures. I'm keenly interested in getting a good camera within the next week or so.

After a couple weeks of intense research, I'm down to a couple of options. What I am wondering is if it would be better to get the best lenses I can afford and go with a Rebel or get prime lenses and go with the D20 body. I don't necessarily want to have to upgrade for at least a few years and have noticed very nice quality pics from both the Rebel and the D20.

If I go with the D20, I'm looking at these lenses:

-Sigma Zoom W. Angle-Telephoto 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 Macro AF
-Canon EF 35mm f/2

I know if I go with a Rebel body, it does not have as much ability to manually control what happens. I don't think I'd outgrow the D20 anytime soon. However, if I go with the Rebel, I'll have about $400 more to spend on good lenses (maybe an canon "L" series lense.) Which would be the smarter route?

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Bryan
near Chicago.

I would reccomend the sigma 18-125 over the 28-300. You have to remember on a rebel or a 20D you have the 1.6 crop factor. Plus the 18-125 is opticaly better.

They're strange lens choices Bryan ... but doesn't make them bad ones I suppose.

The key is to tell us your absolute top line budget and then tell us what you want the lenses for, ie motorsports, indoor sports, birding, zoo trips, family snaps, portraits, safari, buildings, whatever. What are your interests and priorities I guess? I think you will then get some great advice that is relevant to your needs.

Welcome BTW

If you're going to have a steady influx of cash, then probably the 20D as in a few months time you can buy whatever lens you want anyway.

But if this jump into DSLR is going to stretch the budget for a long while, then the 350D is the way to go because ultimately, whatever "trainer" lenses you get, you will eventually want to buy something better

My "two cents worth" is to get the 20D if you can afford it now and then start getting lenses. Maybe get the 17-85 as part of the initial purchase if you can afford it. The 17-85 is an excellent all-around lens and if you buy it with the 20D you get a big break on it's price.

The 20D will serve you better than the Rebel if you can afford the difference.

If not, go with the Rebel and start choosing your lenses as you said. Either way you're a winner!!!

If you're looking at a versatile start-up setup I'd go with the 20D 17-85 kit, then a Canon 70-200 f4 L lens and throw in a 50mm f1.8 II.

I admit I'm picking lenses based on as many reviews as I can read and looking at some posted pictures and wanted to duplicated the types of images.

My budget is open ended, I suppose, I'm not going to spend more then $2,000 USD. I'm interested in all types of photography, but primarly landscapes and photojournalist type portraits (as opposed to the types of family photos my grandfather takes..."okay, everyone say cheese"). I figured I'd need something with a wide range of options and based on reviews I've read, those lenses looked okay. I'm open for any suggestions before I sink all this money into gear!

BTW, this is a great forum, people genuinely seem interested in sharing their knowledge.

Have a think about the 350D/XT body only rather than the 20D. I love the 20D but I'm not sure I'd sink a very large part of my budget that way if I was in your shoes.

For what you want to do the 20D has no real advantages other than it feels more solid and handles a bit better. Put money into decent lenses because unless Canon changes the lens mount then they will last you a long time and retain value better than a body. The XT body only will cost around $800. You can upgrade the body next year if you feel a need to when the 20D replacement arrives.

So, personally, I think for price/performance it is hard to beat the 12-24mm Tokina f4 for your landscapes ($500). The Canon 17-40mm f4 should be looked at along with the 10-22mm Canon. Both lots more cash tho' and that impacts badly on your other options. Tokina have about the best build of all the brands and this is a stellar performer (which is why I just bought it!!)

I would then get a quality standard zoom such as the Sigma I have or the Tamron 28-75 (either will cost around $400-440). Both are fast lenses at f2.8 with excellent optical quality. You can choose either safely. The Sigma is heavier and a bit more on the wide end.

An alternative to the Tokina and Sigma or Tamron combo is the Sigma 18-50 2.8 which will be a lot cheaper and cover the wideish and standard range well. Nice performer. Opens up some budget for the longer end maybe.

Hard to beat those options unless you go the prime route. If you fancy a prime then the 50mm 1.4 is a lovely lens and your own suggestion is pretty good too. With the 50mm Images leap out with a real 3D quality and it's cheaper than the Sigma or Tamron, but at the expense of reduced flexibility. Costs around $300. If you go for a 18-50mm then maybe the 85mm Canon would fit nicely rather than duplicating the 50mm end.

For the longer end you might squeeze in the 70-200mm f4 Canon, which is a lovely lens that everyone loves, but you'd need to look again at your options above to find some budget. A great buy and great resale value.

If longer is less of a priority, which seems to be the case, and you'd rather invest in the wide/standard ranges, then you could go for a Sigma 70-300 DG APO which is well liked by owners and available at around $240. It doesn't have the quality of the other options, but will do very well up to 200mm ... and up to 300mm if you're lucky and you stop it down plenty. It will also do good close up shots, which is a bonus over the more expensive but decent value 100-300mm USM Canon.

If you find you like longer focal lengths then sell the Sigma APO down the line and invest in some more expensive glass. The other lens options can be long term keepers as the quality is there.

Hi Bryan,

Good lenses or good camera first? Without doubt the answer is good lenses first. The camera 'merely' records the image - it's the lens that produces the image for the camera to record (subject to the photographers decisions etc).
Good camera + basic lens = average image quality
Basic camera + good lens = superb image quality
You can always upgrade to a better camera later on and still use your good lenses (only one upgrade to do) - initially buying a good camera and then later wanting to upgrade your lenses will be costly.

Just MHO
Barry

I'd go with Rebel XT. For the same price of a 20D with 17-85mm lens, you can get a Rebel XT w/ 18-55mm kit lens ($900), Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 ($370) and EF 70-200mm f/4 L ($580). That gives you a useful range of 18-200mm. To me, 20D is not worth the $400 difference. I'd rather invest in better lens for the long run. Digital camera body is just like computer which gets obsolete quickly. You can probably get a DSLR with full frame sized sensor such as the just annonced 5D for less than $1500 in 2-3 years. Lens has much higher resell value. Just buy the best lens you can afford for now, and upgrade the body in couple years.

Lenses first. If you're only starting, then primes. I'd get an XT... if you know how it meters. Does it have partial metering?

forget the 28-200 zoom - it sucks

35mm prime is good, but optional. I'd get 28, since it's closer to "true normal" lens.
50/1.8 is a must - portraits
28/2.8 is good too - and cheap Good lens for street candids. You don't want a long telephoto for streets
A tokina 17mm prime - that's for wide angle.

You'll learn a LOT with that setup, and it's under 2K. I think you'll have room for flash too.

You've received some very sound advice already, so I'll just second the opinion that you're best alternative would be to go for quality lenses first.

Bryan

Like everyone have said better lens then better body. I ave the combo you have mention and not particarly happy with it. My recommedation is to take the kit lens and opt for a 50f/1.8. Then when money is available go for the 70-200f/4L then later on maybe a Sigma 24-70f/2.8EX. Recently Dell had the XT w/kit lens for under $800 w/ eCoupons shipped.

Phishhead_23- I was in your position a little less than a year ago. I was debating between the 300d (350 wasnt out yet) and the 20d, and thinking about what lenses I wanted. I was new to dslr, but had some experience with (film) photography. I too asked around for advice and the general consensus was that the glass is ultimately more important. I started out the 300d body and kit lens, and because I hadnt spent all of my money on the 20d, I was able to add the 50mm 1.8 and just the other day a 70-200 F4 L (my macro lens was a gift).

I'm pretty much set on lenses- and spending!- for awhile. In less than a year my next move will probably be to upgrade to the 20d body IF and only if I can get a good deal on a gently used one. I would recommend you go with the rebel XT and invest in some good quality lenses. Just my $.02

S

I would suggest that if you want to go the cheaper body route you look as higher quality lenses on the bases that DSLR bodies go onselete long before lenses.

If this is your first SLR you probably have a limited idea of what photography types you want to do and how important some camera features are and how important image quality is to you.

Remember that wide range zooms, although they look like good value generaly will give less sharp images.

Things to think about:-

Types of photography and situations: Family, landscape, wildlife, insects, people....

On your own, with family: If with family zooms may be a good idea as a wife and even more kids will get restless with too much lens changing.

Likely light levels: If natural ligth inside is important then fast lenses >2.8, this means expensive primes

Will you always want 1.6X bodies or will you want to go full frame: If full frame minimise EF-S type lenses.

How much weight do you want to lug around: Large aperture zooms or prime systems will be heavy. Smaler f4 zooms will be lighter but limited in low light levels without a tripod.

How sharp an image do you need: If less than10X8 prints then sharpness is not such an issue.