How FIRM are your prices?

USER876 wrote in post #11130699
I think what happened is that I did my job! She didn't feel she was that photogenic and was amazed at how many she loved and can't narrow down to what she can afford, she wants everything. I prob screwed up putting too many in her proofing gallery....I try to limit it to 50, but there were so many good shots I put 100 in.

That's one of the big pitfalls of online galleries for portrait work. It's also a pitfall of failing to edit portrait images tightly--showing too much more than you know a person will choose causes indecision.

So what do you suggest is the best way to handle this?

Most times it results in more sales showing them ALL the pictures....they choose ones that would of otherwise deleted. Also, they can justify my price for the CD of total images from the session if there are 100 vs 25.

Okay, I looked again at the heading of the forum topic: The Business of Photography. So my remarks are from the standpoint of running a business, and one of the characteristics of a business is that it makes a profit above all expenses.

I strongly suspect any photography business requires more than 100-250 dollars to make a profit from a 1-hour photo session, with true expenses and actual billable hours per week correctly calculated.

In the portrait business, a guided sales session will result in greater profits than simply posting images online and waiting for someone to bite the bait. Your current method is no money up front, no minimum package in the middle, and haphazard sales in the rear. You're not controlling your sales process at any point. That's not conducive to running a successful portrait business.

I would recommend either a session fee or a minimum package to at least cover your costs in producing the session so that you're not actually losing money on any sale. You are producing a custom product, which means each job costs you money up front for a product you can't sell to another customer.

The size of your session fee, if you go that way, depends on your sales model: A small fee if you want to depend on greater print sales, a large fee if you want to continue with online sales and CDs.

Thank you for the suggestions, it just seems that everyone is looking for a deal around here and there is no shortage of them in an oversaturated market. The idea of no session fee is attractive...maybe instead of a session fee I should just specifiy a minimum order.....or charge a fee but then let the person apply 100% of that towards the purchase of goods (with profit built in).

One local guy is doing senior pictures for 60 dollars.....1 hr session, cd of 50 pictures, and 10 final edits.....crazy!! And his work is pretty good too!

That's your response - you said it.

USER876 wrote in post #11118068
...They are getting a tremendous value, free session and each final retouched image is only ten dollars (facebook size)...

If she can't afford it, she can't afford it. You can't get a discount at Supershoes just because you really really really really really loooovvvve those heels.

I know there's not a lot of money on the line here, but something you should keep in mind for down the track if the business grows is that any discount you offer hits you harder than the might think.

For instance, say you're a wedding photographer charging $2000 for coverage and an album, the cost of the album to you is $600 and the cost of doing business works out to say $600 per wedding and let's say tax takes away $500 of your earnings - your actualy profit on the wedding is just $300, so if you decide to do someone a deal and knock 10% of the price and charge $1800 you've just cut your profit by 66% down to $100. Is it worth all that time and effort for $100? No (it's actually not really worth it for $300 either but that's another issue!)

This is just a very rough example, but it's important to understand that your costs remain the same. For this reason I never offer a discount, I price in a way that's profitable for me and as a customer you can take it or leave it. Discounting also devalues your product and the ripple effect of everyone wanting a discount you mentioned is definitely going to happen.

I can understand someone wanting a deal, but that doesn't mean they will get it. I always negotiate and if the person moves on it, then so be it, but if not, and I already had my sights on it, I will get it anyway. "Nothing beats a failure but a try"

If she really wants it, she will get it, or what she can afford - no different than those shoes or handbags. Plus, she could be setting you up for the other ladies coming down the road. Let them know, in writing, that credits are non transferable.

Sometimes you have to be hard nose or you'll get walked over and this is one of those times to be hard-nosed.

How did you handle it?

I told her If she ordered EVERYTHING she wanted, I would give her 10% off even though the value was still a bit lower than the purchase price I give that discount on.

I also said, she could transfer the credit to use on a FUTURE shoot, but not towards this purchase because it would defeat the purpose of the program if I allowed the referral to use the discount on their shoot.

I think this was very fair..I still think she only wants to spend half of everything she really likes. It's been 2 weeks and she keeps telling me she can't decide and has to look "again." Ugh

Here's your new problem: you haven't set a time limit to move on the deal or to view the proofs. 2 weeks is way too long to view proofs and also, two weeks is plenty time to get all the money...She's not gonna buy. Cut your losses here. Sell her what she can afford and keep it moving.

Here's what I'd do:

See what she is willing to spend TODAY...
Sell her a package based on that price point...
Keep the remainders in storage for about 2-3 months

In 2 -3 months time, offer her the remaining pictures from this shoot at the same price point plus a 10% increase. Allow her to use the discount for that purchase.

In the end, you win on several fronts. You keep a customer with no pressure, you make the money you need to, and I bet she'll be trying harder to send you refferals to rack up on credits, provided you keep the carrot in front of the horse...lol

Good Luck

USER876 wrote in post #11145919
It's been 2 weeks and she keeps telling me she can't decide and has to look "again." Ugh

This is why I like to sell my packages up front. It makes no difference to me how long they procrastinate because I'm already paid. No pressure on me = no pressure on them = everybody's stress free & chillin'.

Oh and to answer the title question - my prices don't move. I have a discount system in place to reward multiple orders and it goes for everyone. I don't give referral rewards either. I feel that bribing references takes the edge off of their credibility. Whatever word spreads, I want it to be untainted.

cdifoto wrote in post #11149511
This is why I like to sell my packages up front. It makes no difference to me how long they procrastinate because I'm already paid. No pressure on me = no pressure on them = everybody's stress free & chillin'.

Oh and to answer the title question - my prices don't move. I have a discount system in place to reward multiple orders and it goes for everyone. I don't give referral rewards either. I feel that bribing references takes the edge off of their credibility. Whatever word spreads, I want it to be untainted.

Good point here too....

price is all relevant to the situation sometimes u might take a hit for repeat business or if you go all out you want to get paid all out and not short change yourself it all depends situation to situation

Well, this is turning out not so good.

The two girls that were referred have not purchased anything yet, keep saying "I have to look at the pictures again and decide" It's been about 2-3 weeks for both of them, and my last email asking them what they decided 2 days ago have been unanswered. I was thinking of calling them, but don't want to be a hound. These were both referrals from the first one. Oh well, we live, we learn.

I noticed the first one joined MM, and now has new pics up on her facebook, I am guessing a TFCD arrangement....I am thinking these girls are liking the idea of free pics vs paying me.

Just move on. They were probably phishing. And please don't contact them again as it will make you look like you are begging, which may give them some negotiation leverage. The ball is in their court. Consider upfront payment next time as mentioned in this thread that way you are paid.

USER876 wrote in post #11173423
Well, this is turning out not so good.

The two girls that were referred have not purchased anything yet, keep saying "I have to look at the pictures again and decide" It's been about 2-3 weeks for both of them, and my last email asking them what they decided 2 days ago have been unanswered. I was thinking of calling them, but don't want to be a hound. These were both referrals from the first one. Oh well, we live, we learn.

I noticed the first one joined MM, and now has new pics up on her facebook, I am guessing a TFCD arrangement....I am thinking these girls are liking the idea of free pics vs paying me.