300D : Using flash in 'M' mode

I am trying to figure out how to use my flash indoors while in 'M' mode. I assumed that if you have the flash up and then tried to compose a shot that the camera would give you compensated values for exposure. It seems that isn't the case. The exposure reading I get without the flash up or with the flash up in 'M' mode seems to the be same.
I must be missing something...? Can I not shoot in 'M' modes indoors without a tripod?

Thanks

"M" mode has nothing to do with indoors or outdoors, and it has nothing to do with a tripod.

"M" mode flash has very little to do with the light you get out of your flash unit. The metering only measures the ambient light of the scene, and it neither knows nor cares about anything you are doing with the flash unit. In this case, knowing exactly what your flash unit is going to do, perhaps based on Guide Number, is the key to planning the shot. Otherwise, you can take a test shot with any exposure set, and then just manually adjust it up or down until you get one shot that you like.

This is why M mode is not recommended for beginners if you are trying to get quick results.

---Bob Gross---

Are you sure about that, Bob? Or maybe I'm misreading what you said? What you described sounds like the behavior in Av/Tv mode, but I was under the impression that in M mode the flash output is adjusted automatically.

From the EOS Flash Bible:

"The subject, however, can still be illuminated by the automatic flash metering system since the flash can automatically calculate flash output levels for you."

I often take shots in M most that are way underexposed on purpose so I can freeze the action, and the flash compenstates and I get a good exposure on the subject, regardless of what shutter and aperture I select (within reason).

Here's the link:
http://photonotes.org ….html#manualexp​osureflash

M mode flash is a little more complicated than what it seems like, partly because we don't know which equipment is being used in this case, other than the 300D. Some lenses don't have a distance scale, so you don't know what distance the subject is at (therefore you don't know whether you are within the flash range or not).

---Bob Gross---

It may be a little more complicated to you, but for the rest of us it's a LOT more complicated.

Either way, take down that link I posted, Monty, it's a great EOS flash reference.

I've played with the 300D (among others) in M mode with the built-in-flash.. and to put it simply, the flash will burn enough light to make the exposure correct.. taking subject matter and distance into consideration.

with a slow shutter speed, you may get some blur with moving subjects.. desired or not.. and the aperature is up to you.

check the link from Phillip.. and play with the settings. you'll figure it out.

.. Lee

pcasciola wrote:
It may be a little more complicated to you, but for the rest of us it's a LOT more complicated.

It just seems to me that there are too many things about flash exposure (when in M mode) that are not adjusted, as compared to something more foolproof, like P mode. It seems like there are too many things that are calculated based on theory, and in practice, things are different. For example, flash modification with diffusers.

I like to avoid systems that offer me more ways of going wrong.

---Bob Gross---

Hmmm. I was using the built-in flash on my 300D just this evening while in "M" mode. I was using variable shutter speeds to allow the background to show up (fill-flash, or slow-sync?). Soon as I get my pics loaded on the computer and post-process a couple, I'll show an example.

OK. Here's one. 300D, on-board flash, EV -2/3, 1/10 sec., ISO-100, f/2.5. Using my 50mm f/1.8 on my new Manfrotto monopod.

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Let's not mix appples and oranges. There is Manual Mode on the camera and Manual Mode on the flash.

When the camera is in Manual Mode and the flash is on ETTL, you must set the exposure for the ambient light on the camera and the flash will expose the subject. The camera settings do not affect the flash, unless you reduce the flash's ability to travel by choosing too small an aperture. (Distance =GN/ f stop)

When the camera is on Manual and the flash is on Manual, you have to set the settings on the camera and flash. You set the flash by using a flash meter.

You can have the camera on P and the flash on Manual. The camera sets the ambient exposure and you control the flash.

You can have the camera on P and the Flash on ETTL.

The camera meter you see in the viewfinder is not affected by flash at all.

Flash control and camera control are totally independent when the camera is in Tv, Av, and M, except the camera won't allow shutter speeds in excess of the X speed(sync) unless you are in FP Flash Mode.

In P Mode, flash output is automatically reduced when ambient lighting is high.

It helps to consider flash pictures as two exposures combined-the flash and the ambient light. You have to consider how each exposure will be rendered. You can choose to control one and have the other done for you, or do both on your own, or none on your own. (P+ETTL)
My own preference when using a single flash, is to have the camera on Manual and the flash on ETTL. That gives me the ability to determine how I want my background to look by regulating how much ambient light is recorded. If There is mixed lighting I can go to 1/250 and eliminate most of the ambient light, or if there is a nice sunset, I can meter to capture it in the background and use the flash to light the subject.

looks about right... (and it looks like Elvis is still gaining weight!!)

You set the camera exposure for the background.. and let the flash fill in the foreground.
Works great as long as you don't have too much space between your flash and the subject...
(assuming we use the built in flash..)

have fun with Mr.Frotto.. have been using mine for many years. (if you don't have a quick release head.. get one.)

.. Lee

Scott.. Your explanation clears a lot of open questions.. but I don't think our 300D has much in the way of built-in-flash adjustments.

I'll be saving up for an EX flash soon... and then I can try this stuff too.

Correct. When you pop up the built-in flash on the 300D, E-TTL is all you get.

Once I started using my 420EX with the camera in manual I have never gone back to using any of the other modes with flash, with the exception of using flash for daytime outdoor fill.

Even with the pop-up flash, everything works the way Scott explained. ETTL/ETTL-II is used for the subject exposure, the camera light meter is used for ambient/background exposure.

The original poster did not specify built-in flash or external flash, so that is why everybody's thinking is mixed.

---Bob Gross---