How do you compete with this?

don't compete on price.

you could try and be the walmart of photography....or lamborghini of photography. Go after quality rather than underbidding.

Let me play devil's advocate for a moment...

Why is the assumption that the person handing out the CD doesn't produce great images? What if this person just does it out of pure pleasure and isn't concerned about breaking the bank? Or what if they charge what they think is fair for their time, but doesn't want to get into the printing side?

bradttu wrote in post #11254713
Let me play devil's advocate for a moment...

Why is the assumption that the person handing out the CD doesn't produce great images? What if this person just does it out of pure pleasure and isn't concerned about breaking the bank? Or what if they charge what they think is fair for their time, but doesn't want to get into the printing side?

Because, even if you accept this as a straight deal:
A shoot with 3 - 4 changes of outfit, an hour and a half
Processing 340 images to a reasonable standard, including editing 3-4 hours at least - 340 images to print standard for me would be nearer 7 hours
So that's 5 (ish) hours work at least
overheads to run a business including insurance, equipment replacement, training, studio hire?
Then take off the tax.
Do you really believe that this is an actual workable business plan? Just someone who doesn't want to 'get into printing'?
As above the people that see the $500 for a wedding thinking it's an afternoons easy money, but the reality is that it's almost a weeks work. And $500 gross for a weeks work is near to starvation wages.

Phil V wrote in post #11255023
Because, even if you accept this as a straight deal:
A shoot with 3 - 4 changes of outfit, an hour and a half
Processing 340 images to a reasonable standard, including editing 3-4 hours at least - 340 images to print standard for me would be nearer 7 hours
So that's 5 (ish) hours work at least
overheads to run a business including insurance, equipment replacement, training, studio hire?
Then take off the tax.
Do you really believe that this is an actual workable business plan? Just someone who doesn't want to 'get into printing'?
As above the people that see the $500 for a wedding thinking it's an afternoons easy money, but the reality is that it's almost a weeks work. And $500 gross for a weeks work is near to starvation wages.

I understand where you're coming from. But like I said, what if the person does it purely for the pleasure they get from it? They're obviously not in it to make a living. They do it to make a few bucks here and there to support their hobby. If they think $500 is enough for X hours of time, who are we to judge? And why do we assume their work is going to be terrible just because they're undercutting the competition and handing over a fully loaded disk?

Again, just playing devil's advocate.

bradttu wrote in post #11255067
I understand where you're coming from. But like I said, what if the person does it purely for the pleasure they get from it? They're obviously not in it to make a living. They do it to make a few bucks here and there to support their hobby. If they think $500 is enough for X hours of time, who are we to judge? And why do we assume their work is going to be terrible just because they're undercutting the competition and handing over a fully loaded disk?

Again, just playing devil's advocate.

I just took another look at the forum heading again, and, yes it is still The Business of Photography. I don't know why people come to a topic heading The Business of Photography and not expect to see business-oriented responses.

The OP's question is how can he (or she) as a businessperson compete with that kind of advertisement. Nobody can run a business like that, which is what we're talking about in this topic, which is The Business of Photography, btw, and thus you're seeing responses along that line.

Yeah I get that this is a business related topic and forum. Nobody is disputing that. We live in a free market society, or at least most of us do, and this person is entitled to run their "business" how they see fit. This is why so many people hate the "evil' corporation known as Walmart. But I'm a capitalist...survival of the fittest. If you can't compete, you'll lose a customer no matter what the product or price.

In all reality, how many of us here do photography full time and how many of us just have a very expensive hobby? I'd say a lot of us fall into the latter. I know I do. I have a full time job that pays the bills and I have a "photography business" as a hobby / tax write off. Just because I don't do it full time doesn't mean I don't treat it like a business. However, because I don't do it full time, I can afford to undercut the competition with a price I'm comfortable accepting for my work.

I guess my main issue is that I think it's pretty arrogant to think that because this person doesn't charge the going rate, they can't produce fantastic images.

<====€ Psst! The dude under that hat do this full-time he do, he do'od it full time in all reality's.

Still those cookie cutter shops dun bodder me. Those that run arena's like that, do so because they can't compete with them wacky full-time Photogs.

Most of the time they are also the ones that spoil the basket of apples, leaving a shady con'd, distaste, where a pleasant, elevated feeling should be left.

bradttu wrote in post #11255486
Yeah I get that this is a business related topic and forum. Nobody is disputing that. We live in a free market society, or at least most of us do, and this person is entitled to run their "business" how they see fit. This is why so many people hate the "evil' corporation known as Walmart. But I'm a capitalist...survival of the fittest. If you can't compete, you'll lose a customer no matter what the product or price.

In all reality, how many of us here do photography full time and how many of us just have a very expensive hobby? I'd say a lot of us fall into the latter. I know I do. I have a full time job that pays the bills and I have a "photography business" as a hobby / tax write off. Just because I don't do it full time doesn't mean I don't treat it like a business. However, because I don't do it full time, I can afford to undercut the competition with a price I'm comfortable accepting for my work.

I guess my main issue is that I think it's pretty arrogant to think that because this person doesn't charge the going rate, they can't produce fantastic images.

Agreed. There's no specific $ amount one needs to charge to qualify as a legit business.

bradttu wrote in post #11255486
I guess my main issue is that I think it's pretty arrogant to think that because this person doesn't charge the going rate, they can't produce fantastic images.

Then you can go to work for $3.00 an hour and perform better work then those doing the same job, but they get paid the going rate for that job.

Get back to us on how that works out for ya.

I didn't read every post and I don't shoot weddings BUT how can anyone even think of shooting what should be a "once-in-a- lifetime event" when they don't even own back up equipment?? It's a shame that when a "photographer" shows up without backup gear it's not considered fraud.Regardless of their fee. We need to educate the public about what to look for in a photographer. Maybe starting with articles in bridal mags?

Just needed to vent

Bosscat wrote in post #11255900
Then you can go to work for $3.00 an hour and perform better work then those doing the same job, but they get paid the going rate for that job.

Get back to us on how that works out for ya.

I don't see why this is so difficult to understand.

If the "business owner" is satisfied with the price he/she is charging, who are we to judge? If the potential client reviews both portfolios and decides to go with the cheaper photographer, I say the more expensive photographer needs to review his/her marketing skills because he/she lost the client. You can't just say, "I'm better, therefore I must charge more." The client felt that they could get the same, or possibly better, quality for a much cheaper price. I bought my 7D at large blue and yellow retail store because the guy at the local camera shop wouldn't match their price. He said he couldn't match their price because of the service I would get after the sale. I wasn't interested in that. My need was satisfied at the retail store for much less.

Again, free market principles at work. There is no way around this very simple concept. The client wants X and is willing to pay somewhere around Y. They don't care about any of the other razmataz.

Here's something to consider...

Think of what the monitor you're reading this post on would cost if it was made by someone making $15 or $20 an hour. It would cost 5 to 10 times as much as you paid for it. You paid what you paid because someone else produces it at a cheaper rate. Obviously you were satisfied with the final product or else you wouldn't have made the purchase. Like it or not, this principle applies in any type of business.

bradttu wrote in post #11256465
Think of what the monitor you're reading this post on would cost if it was made by someone making $15 or $20 an hour. It would cost 5 to 10 times as much as you paid for it. You paid what you paid because someone else produces it at a cheaper rate. Obviously you were satisfied with the final product or else you wouldn't have made the purchase. Like it or not, this principle applies in any type of business.

I paid what I paid because its all the money I had available for a laptop to use for the internet. Why.....because I can't make money competing with the guys that sell $10 8x10's or sell CD's with 20 photos for $40

The original ad said they were offering this special on select days to fill in last minute openings. I guess their mentality is that they are all gonna be at the studio, so might as well make something vs sit there and do nothing. Who knows. I just hope their REAL paying customers don't hear of this deal.......

tjames wrote in post #11173815
You don't compete with this.. at least if you want to stay in business. I can tell you right off the bat that if clients are referring to cheaper photographers you're not providing anything of value for them to use you OR you are targeting the wrong market altogether.

What you said are correct,

Someone asking me the same question
And he mentioned about studio X are offering CD for XXX

I did not answered and try to avoid the question but she push me hard to answer

And then I gave her an example,
If you order photo from me for 1 session, my price is XXXXX,
She got the view and know exactly that I'm in a different class,
She wouldn't dare to go further than that

USER876 wrote in post #11257746
The original ad said they were offering this special on select days to fill in last minute openings. I guess their mentality is that they are all gonna be at the studio, so might as well make something vs sit there and do nothing. Who knows. I just hope their REAL paying customers don't hear of this deal.......

That's hard to buy from a business point of view. If he or she is indeed running a business, the price is less than profitable anywhere in the US. The photographer would be better off doing tests, taking a nap, or going out to see "Toy Story 3" with the family than filling up openings with jobs that are actually going to cost money.