For All You Grip Geeks: Avenger & Matthews - Can't We All Just Get Along?

If you use heavy duty light stands and grip hardware that have Junior receptors or you're just a grip geek then this will be of interest to you.

Recently I've been upgrading and tweaking the grip hardware and light stands I use and came across a slight difference between Avenger and Matthews junior pins and receptors. I can't say for sure if this is a universal difference in all the components and I have no idea how these two brands compare to receptors and pins used by Altman and others but this is what I found.

Below is an Avenger E200 and a Matthews 429029 Junior to Baby adapter. They're very similar but if you look carefully you can see that the Junior pins are of different heights. The Avenger junior insert measures 115mm and the Matthews measures 106mm.The junior receptor is also deeper on the Avenger. Each receptor has a 'stop'. The Avenger has its stop 116 mm from the top of the receptor and the Matthews has it 107mm from the top.

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Sounds like a good excuse to stick with MSE for all your grip
gear!

TMR Design wrote in post #11177750
NOTE: I realize the baby pins are different as well but I haven't found an instance where that has made any difference in the fit of any other component that can receive a baby pin.

I take this back. All the grip hardware seems to work fine but when I just mount my Elinchrom 600RX it's a different story.

Once again the Avenger adapter falls short. When you mount a strobe on a pin or stud you slide the collar of the swivel mount down on the pin and then tighten the set screw. The screw is tightening inside the recessed portion of the pin but the collar slides over the wider part of the pin.

With the Avenger pin, collar of the swivel mount doesn't go far enough on the pin to pass the recessed part. When you tighten the set screw it causes the swivel mount and strobe to angle and tighten in an awkward position.

Using the Matthews pin, the shorter recessed area is a plus and allows the swivel mount to seat far enough down so that the wide part of the pin is inside the collar.

I'm not sure if this is really clear from the description. Tomorrow I'll take some shots to demonstrate the difference in the baby pins.

aroundlsu wrote in post #11178442
Sounds like a good excuse to stick with MSE for all your grip
gear!

Yes, but the interesting thing is that not all the Avenger baby pins have the same shape and dimensions as the E200.

There's a lot of Avenger grip gear that doesn't present this problem but this adapter in particular seems to be an issue.

TMR Design wrote in post #11178455
I take this back. All the grip hardware seems to work fine but when I just mount my Elinchrom 600RX it's a different story.

Once again the Avenger adapter falls short. When you mount a strobe on a pin or stud you slide the collar of the swivel mount down on the pin and then tighten the set screw. The screw is tightening inside the recessed portion of the pin but the collar slides over the wider part of the pin.

With the Avenger pin, collar of the swivel mount doesn't go far enough on the pin to pass the recessed part. When you tighten the set screw it causes the swivel mount and strobe to angle and tighten in an awkward position.

Using the Matthews pin, the shorter recessed area is a plus and allows the swivel mount to seat far enough down so that the wide part of the pin is inside the collar.

I'm not sure if this is really clear from the description. Tomorrow I'll take some shots to demonstrate the difference in the baby pins.

The elongated neck portion of many of the Avenger baby pins drives me nuts, Rob. All of my swivel pins, for example, have the longer neck portion and none of my lights have deep enough light stand sockets to allow them to seat properly. Thanks for pointing out the more socket-friendly Matthews pins.

Now can you tell me why Avenger pins have longer necks?

Dave F.

But isn't it interesting that the neck on the E700 or E650 don't have the elongated neck and they work fine with strobes or other components?

thanks for this post. It's the little details like this than can cost you a lot of headaches and extra money when something doesn't fit the way you thought it would.

Great post as usual, Rob. Thanks! Great timing too as I'm also in the middle of planning to upgrade most of my grip gear to Avenger/Matthews.

That long safety recess on some Avenger pins drives me nuts as well. I've had a couple of Avenger units with bolt-on pins that I've had to replace with others that I drilled and tapped for the occasion accordingly.

It's almost as if Avenger assumes that unit X WILL be used with a Hollywood head - whether we want it to or not. Reminds me of a saying re: German car & motorcycle design: "There's the right way (to design something), the wrong way, and the German way".

Conner999 wrote in post #11179968
Reminds me of a saying re: German car & motorcycle design: "There's the right way (to design something), the wrong way, and the German way".

Which usually is tomorrow's 'right way'.

Tobi

LOL

I really torques me that you get 8 hotdogs in a pack, and only 6 buns! Or that the hot dogs are shorter than the bun. And that the America yellow mustard is such inedible cr*p compared to European mustards.

This lighting compatability BS is small stuff in comparison to those issues.

Wilt wrote in post #11181031
I really torques me that you get 8 hotdogs in a pack, and only 6 buns! Or that the hot dogs are shorter than the bun. And that the America yellow mustard is such inedible cr*p compared to European mustards.

This lighting compatability BS is small stuff in comparison to those issues.

I don't know where you do your shopping Wilt but when I buy a pack of 8 hot dogs I also buy a pack of 8 buns.

The lighting stuff drives me nuts.

I have noticed this before too, but I have never been in a circumstance where it caused any problems.

Have you noticed the same collar issue with the Avenger drop down pin? I've had the same experience with the Ranger head and the drop down pin. I just cranked it tight and it holds fine, but I wish it would seat squarely.