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Thread started 28 Oct 2010 (Thursday) 03:37
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First attempt at stargazing Please Comment/Help

 
Sdiver2489
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Oct 28, 2010 03:37 |  #1

Hello,

I'm here in Hawaii on vacation and have gotten to see some beautiful night skies. This is my first attempt at getting a good picture of some stars. I used my 35mm F1.4L lens with a 15 second exposure. I took one picture followed by two pictures with the same settings with the lens cap on. I imported into camera raw and processed all three with the same settings with NR off. I then subtracted the two lens cap on frames and saved. I then reopened in camera raw and performed noise reduction.

I was a little disappointed not to see some of the galaxies people seem to get. But I am wondering if there is something I can do to improve these photos. 15 seconds seemed to be the longest I could go without getting small star trails. What do you think?

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Stargazing in Hawaii (external link) by Ryan Leemhuis Photography (external link), on Flickr

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Stargazing in Hawaii Part II (external link) by Ryan Leemhuis Photography (external link), on Flickr

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Sdiver2489
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Oct 28, 2010 19:46 |  #2

No one?


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SteveInNZ
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Oct 28, 2010 20:58 |  #3

I was expecting someone else would jump in too. Maybe everybody is busy with the You don't need a telescope thread.

The dark frame(s) need to be subtracted before any processing is done. The dark frame just has noise and no data. The image (light frames) has noise and data. The subtraction just leaves data and then you can start stretching and manipulating that. To further complicate matters, when you move from ACR to PS, the data gets converted (gamma corrected) so that a subtraction in PS isn't the same as a straight raw subtraction.

For single 15 second shots, you are probably best to use the in-camera noise reduction. If you want to delve deeper, then look into one of the astronomical image processing programs like Deep Sky Stacker (see the sticky).

Galaxies might be a bit wishful thinking. You can certainly rattle off lots of 15 second shots (and some darks) and use Deep Sky Stacker to make it equivalent to a single long exposure without the star movement. There are some recent threads with some very successful outcomes from that technique.


"Treat every photon with respect" - David Malin.

  
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Celestron
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Oct 28, 2010 21:00 |  #4

Well not sure what the first is but the second looks like maybe the Milkyway ? Just really surprised that with that lens that , that much CA (chromatic abberation) shows up . It maybe corrected in PS or the likes but this really throws off the image and you have no editing listed so can't really work it to see or correct it . However i have heard that some L lens f/1.4 down to f/1.1 really showed some CA even in daytime images which shocked me .




  
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mtbdudex
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Oct 29, 2010 00:05 as a reply to  @ Celestron's post |  #5

Ryan, for milky way try wider shot, use your Canon 17-55mm F2.8 @ 17mm wide open!

If you can see the milky way with your eyes (and I assume dark in Hawaii from what I hear), you should be able to at least capture a single image somewhat decent.
After that, you can do the DSS thing.

Here is single milky way from Hillman Mich, not as dark as where you are.
Sure, the clouds took away from the overall clarity, but still sorta cool.

These are 25 sec and 30 sec single exposure, the Canon 15-85 @ 15mm, f3.5, ISO1600.
This is what my eye saw, and upon taking it I could see it on the LCD screen.
I wish I took same @ ISO800 for less noise, but too late.

IMAGE: http://lh3.ggpht.com/_FqTNmgNQHz8/TGUNRLpJgXI/AAAAAAAAKmU/ovyhMmh_IF8/s800/_MG_0656.jpg
IMAGE: http://lh3.ggpht.com/_FqTNmgNQHz8/TGUNQBFNbxI/AAAAAAAAKmQ/qpifwjhll6I/s800/_MG_0651.jpg

I'd frame your Hawaii shot with some cool ground scenery in it for ref following rule of 1/3'ds.
Take more and post in this thread, have fun and enjoy yourself on vacation.
btw, how much longer will you be in Hawaii?

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Sdiver2489
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Oct 29, 2010 18:31 |  #6

mtbdudex wrote in post #11185692 (external link)
Ryan, for milky way try wider shot, use your Canon 17-55mm F2.8 @ 17mm wide open!

If you can see the milky way with your eyes (and I assume dark in Hawaii from what I hear), you should be able to at least capture a single image somewhat decent.
After that, you can do the DSS thing.

Here is single milky way from Hillman Mich, not as dark as where you are.
Sure, the clouds took away from the overall clarity, but still sorta cool.

These are 25 sec and 30 sec single exposure, the Canon 15-85 @ 15mm, f3.5, ISO1600.
This is what my eye saw, and upon taking it I could see it on the LCD screen.
I wish I took same @ ISO800 for less noise, but too late.
QUOTED IMAGE
QUOTED IMAGE

I'd frame your Hawaii shot with some cool ground scenery in it for ref following rule of 1/3'ds.
Take more and post in this thread, have fun and enjoy yourself on vacation.
btw, how much longer will you be in Hawaii?

I will be in hawaii until the 5th of November. I simply used the 35mm as it was the widest aperture lens I have. When I did 25-30 second exposures with it I got noticeable star trails and I'm not sure how that would look in the final product. I can certainly try the 17-55mm lens though.

How do I do Dark Frame Subtraction without getting out of ACR. In ACR the dark frames only have speckles of pixels. Not really a constant noise patter like I originally expected but that might be because of the default "5" setting to "blacks" in ACR.


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mtbdudex
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Oct 30, 2010 03:07 as a reply to  @ Sdiver2489's post |  #7

Download this free program, it easy to use...http://deepskystacker.​free.fr/english/index.​html (external link)

There's a whole "art" and science to massaging your DSS output for image, various threads have been written on that, for simple starters read this written by "Baz" https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=763083

from DSS website:

What is DeepSkyStacker?

DeepSkyStacker is a freeware for astrophotographers that simplifies all the pre-processing steps of deep sky pictures.
  • Registering
  • Stacking
  • Simple post-stacking processes to quickly view the final result.
  • Saving the resulting image to a TIFF or FITS file (16 or 32 bit)


After a shooting night you give all your pictures (light frames, darks frames, offset/bias frames, flat frames) to DeepSkyStacker and you go to bed. The next morning (or is it afternoon?) you can see the result and start post-processing.

Light, Dark, Flat, Bias... What are they and how to create them?
(if you are wondering how all the files are used during the calibration process you can have a look here)

Light Frames
The Light Frames are the images that contains the real information: images of galaxies, nebula...
This is what you want to stack.

Dark Frames and Dark Flat Frames
The Dark Frames are used to remove the dark signal from the light frames (or the flat frames for the Dark Flat frames).
With DSLRs and CCD Camera, the CMOS or CCD is generating a dark signal depending of the exposure time, temperature and ISO speed (DSLR only).
To remove the dark signal from the light frames you use a dark frame that contains only the dark signal.

The best way to create the dark frames is to shoot pictures in the dark (hence the name) by covering the lens.
The dark frames must be created with the exposure time, temperature and ISO speed of the light frames (resp. flat frames).
Since the temperature is important try to shoot dark frames at the end or during your imaging session.

Take a few of them (between 10 and 20 is usually enough). DeepSkyStacker will combine them automatically to create and use a clean master dark or master dark flat.

Bias Frames (aka Offset Frames)
The Bias/Offset Frames are used to remove the CCD or CMOS chip readout signal from the light frames.
Each CCD or CMOS chip is generating a readout signal which is a signal created by the electronic just by reading the content of the chip.

It's very easy to create bias/offset frames: just take the shortest possible exposure (it may be 1/4000s or 1/8000s depending on your camera) in the dark by covering the lens.
The bias frames must be create with the ISO speed of the light frames. The temperature is not important.

Take a few of them (between 10 and 20 is usually enough). DeepSkyStacker will combine them automatically to create and use a clean master bias/offset frame

Flat Frames
The Flat Frames are used to correct the vignetting and uneven field illumination created by dust or smudges in your optical train.

To create good flat frames it is very important to not remove your camera from your telescope before taking them (including not changing the focus).
You can use a lot of different methods (including using a flatbox) but I found that the simplest way is to put a white T shirt in front of your telescope and smooth out the folds. Then shoot something luminous (a flash, a bright white light, the sky at dawn...) and let the camera decide of the exposure time (Av mode),

The flat frames should be created with the ISO speed of the light frames. The temperature is not important.

Take a few of them (between 10 and 20 is usually enough). DeepSkyStacker will combine them automatically to create and use a clean master flat frame.

fwiw, I take Light frames, dark frames, and Bias frames immediately at same time (capture session) as a routine and usually just use those in DSS.
I've done the Flat Frames but have not noticed big diff...


Mike R, P.E. ...iMac 27"(i7), iPad2, iPhone14Pro, AppleTV4K, MacBook
Canon: Body R5, lens RF 24-105mm L F4, RF 100-500mm f/4.5-7.1L, 1.4 TC, EF 70-200 L f2.8 IS II / TC 1.4x 2x
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First attempt at stargazing Please Comment/Help
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