Client vs Photographer

I wanted to start this discussion here, and if there's another thread elsewhere, we can continue it there... anyway -

"If the client is happy, the work is well done." - may I disagree?
I mean it's good to get paid but I've noticed that some photographers just don't grow because of this notion. You go out and shoot, you get paid, you are done. It doesn't matter
how good or bad the photo is - you are only judged by the paycheck, if you you get it along with a client's happy smile, than you are good. However, we have all done this, I know, when have to shoot absolute crap just for the sake of the client. They dismiss your vision and your creativity, they just want what they want and nothing else. And you do it, you never put it in your portfolio (which brought to you that stubborn client on the first place) and you spend this check in a bar, drinking away your sorrow, feeling used and violated ... anyway, folks I hope you get the point. Most clients most likely don't know jack. They are as far from understanding the difference between a good photo and a bad one as they can be and they will argue their mouths off about every little detail that can save your photo from looking like absolute piece of mindless crap

So... I am just curious about the occurrences of creative head-butting between the artist and the client, and your opinions about "the client is always right".

The customer is not always right. In any business. Not all customers have the knowledge to know what is best for them. I find myself educating customers all the time, in any job I've worked.

Example: I am a mechanic... had an elderly customer that wanted the oil changed in his car, but not the filter, because 'they changed the filter last time'. This gentleman was living in the olden days of car maintenance when filters were ungodly expensive and oil was of poor quality. Back then it was customary to replace the filter only every other time. Had to educate him on the advances in technology and the fact that the filter only costs $7 now.

Even though 'absolute crap' will make the customer happy (at their current knowledge level) a professional should not be giving them crap. Give them something high quality and do them a favor.

Of course, there will always be a customer that insists on selective color, heavy vignette, etc.

Jill-of-all-Trades wrote in post #11189342
The customer is not always right. In any business. Not all customers have the knowledge to know what is best for them. I find myself educating customers all the time, in any job I've worked.

Example: I am a mechanic... had an elderly customer that wanted the oil changed in his car, but not the filter, because 'they changed the filter last time'. This gentleman was living in the olden days of car maintenance when filters were ungodly expensive and oil was of poor quality. Back then it was customary to replace the filter only every other time. Had to educate him on the advances in technology and the fact that the filter only costs $7 now.

Even though 'absolute crap' will make the customer happy (at their current knowledge level) a professional should not be giving them crap. Give them something high quality and do them a favor.

Of course, there will always be a customer that insists on selective color, heavy vignette, etc.

Ditto...well said BTW.

Thanks!

Technically speaking your average customer does not know what constitutes a "Good" photograph.
However, take a technically good photograph and put it next to a technically bad one and they will likely pick the right one.
Not being able to describe exactly what they like better, they will still choose it.
Nit picking each shot is what we do. We can't help ourselves.
The client is always right, went out in the 90's.

zagiace wrote in post #11189504
The client is always right, went out in the 90's.

That would then mean they shouldn't get the JPEG files, just cause they want them then.

Most people are just happy as long as the person in the image is them, no matter how good or bad it is, and the price is as low as possible.

It's great to see your works Misha!
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Bosscat wrote in post #11189609
That would then mean they shouldn't get the JPEG files, just cause they want them then.

Not sure how that relates to saying the client is not always right. Did I miss something?

Bosscat wrote in post #11189609
Most people are just happy as long as the person in the image is them, no matter how good or bad it is, and the price is as low as possible.

hmm, totally disagree.
Why would the average wedding photography package be around $2500?
"most" people would not pay that for poorly exposed, poorly composed and out of focus images.

Most clients most likely don't know jack. They are as far from understanding the difference between a good photo and a bad one as they can be and they will argue their mouths off about every little detail that can save your photo from looking like absolute piece of mindless crap

So... I am just curious about the occurrences of creative head-butting between the artist and the client, and your opinions about "the client is always right".

You're not charging enough. When your prices are high enough for clients to acknowledge you as an artist rather than just a picture taker, they'll start accepting your artistic judgment. A $450 hair stylist gets less smack from his clients than a $4.50 barber.

zagiace wrote in post #11189676
Not sure how that relates to saying the client is not always right. Did I miss something?

It relates to another thread where people want files, and many seem to think the customer is right in asking and getting them as part of the package.

zagiace wrote in post #11189676
hmm, totally disagree.
Why would the average wedding photography package be around $2500?
"most" people would not pay that for poorly exposed, poorly composed and out of focus images.

I don't shoot weddings.....they are a place to go and eat and drink beer for me...lots of beer if it is a free bar...trust me on that one!!!

But shooting various forms of motosports, I have lost many sales to bargain basement shooters, but no longer care, as the clients will have fuzzy OoF memories for the rest of their life.

While I can't contribute to this about photography this is always happening in the tattoo shop. Most of our tattooers suck it up do the tattoo and send them on their way. Probally how I would treat a client as well.

Bosscat wrote in post #11190285
I don't shoot weddings.....they are a place to go and eat and drink beer for me...lots of beer if it is a free bar...trust me on that one!!!

Now there is a comment I WILL agree with.
To bad I am always working at weddings and don't get to participate.

I agree with what the OP is saying. But i think the problem is better placed in another area. These photographers are not growing, not because the client is happy, but because they have become comfortable with thier skill set, and to lazy to advance farther. The fact that the client is happy is a contributer to this not the cause alone.

It happens in everything not just photo. "If the client is happy with 90% of your work.... why try harder. That 10% is not worth the effort." And that may be true to pay the rent. But you cant grow if you dont push yourself. If you feel you dont need to push... a lot of people will not. If your at the level of sucess you need to pay the bills. Its very easy to get lazy and stagnate there. There is no need to advance as "they have arrived!"as far as they are concerned. -- these people also tend to not understand why they get passed over for jobs.

This is more of a personality trait than anything else. If you are easily made content, then you will be. If you are a perfectionist, then you will be. When some feel "good enough". They tend to treat that as the goal. And they relax. Or level off to maintain. And they are actually happy to do so. They will push when they have to go to the next level for whatever the reason my be. But then they will level off again and be comfortable.

Others will push constantly. The degree of push varies a lot. But a push is a push. They will tear their own work apart with criticism even after they client thinks they have recieved the best work ever produced. And they get better, and take themselves to the next level. And they reap the rewards from doing so.

I have to admit I was a comfortable and lazy type. I did 'just enough' for way too long. And I am trying to do whatever I can to become someone who allways pushes. It is so hard to change, but I am coming arround slowly.

I tend not to work for clients that are not interested in my opinion as a photographer.

Of course all clients (and by that I mean PR/marketing people) think they know best. It's always easier to shoot whatever they want, fulfulling the brief and making sure you get paid, then go and shoot the shots that you want. The majority of the time when the client sees the final edit they'll at least acknowledge that your shots work better. That doesn't mean they'll use your shots - but at least that respect is put in place.

Ultimately this comes down to professionalism. If a client has a brief they want it met. If the brief is open then you have to come up with the shots.

The customer may not always be right, but it's the customer that pays your bills.

AdamGasson wrote in post #11192211
I tend not to work for clients that are not interested in my opinion as a photographer.

Of course all clients (and by that I mean PR/marketing people) think they know best. It's always easier to shoot whatever they want, fulfulling the brief and making sure you get paid, then go and shoot the shots that you want. The majority of the time when the client sees the final edit they'll at least acknowledge that your shots work better. That doesn't mean they'll use your shots - but at least that respect is put in place.

Ultimately this comes down to professionalism. If a client has a brief they want it met. If the brief is open then you have to come up with the shots.

The customer may not always be right, but it's the customer that pays your bills.

Agree. I give them what they said they wanted AND I give them what I think they need. By the time it goes through their cover your butt committee approval system, I'm usually surprised at what survived. As long as the check clears...