How Do You Manage Manual Flash at Receptions?

I had a crush of weddings throughout October and continue to plow my way through the PP. I'm really starting to pull my hair out over the limitations of ETTL to read a scene. I usually think to dial it up or back based on white dresses or black tuxes, but too often, there's something else in a scene that "tricks" ETTL; something that may become obvious during PP but was never really apparent to me at the time of the shoot.

I'd like the consistency of manual flash, but I struggle with how I'd apply it given the way I shoot. I'm typically using flash bounced off the ceiling with a large bounce card. I'm roaming the floor with my 24-70 and sometimes shooting a head and shoulders of a couple at a table or out on the dance floor, but sometimes going wide and getting in larger groups or broader dancing. And for any "events" (father/daughter dance, cake cutting, etc.), I'm using two flashes via infared.

So it's not like I can find an exposure at a distance that works for me based on the environment and shoot with that all night, I'd have to change it repeatedly. So for those of you who work your flash in manual mode, how do you keep yourself responsive to changing needs. Do you just get one base setting and wing it from there?

I understand your issues with ETTL, but I'd think you would have other issues (but just as frustrating) using Manual as anytime the distance from the light source to the subject changes, your flash exposure would be different. I guess with enough practice you could look at the "path" the light takes from the flash to the bounce surface(s) and finally to the subject, and guestimate the flash power needed on that distance (along with the reflectivity of the bounce surface)

I've gone into manual using the direct fill flash (outdoors) as you then take the bouncing out of the equation. There it wasn't as bad as you knew for your given ("chimped") flash power you need to stay the same distance from the subject. If you are moving in a bit, you just reduce the power. Moving back, increase the power.

My best bet is to shoot raw so if ETTL "blows it" (pun intended), you can recover quite a bit more than JPG.

I used to be on the other side of the situation where my manual flash was throwing off shots because I was limited on what I could or couldn't get based on my light placement. Kind of by chance I busted one of my triggers on a location shoot with a band and decided I wanted to change them up anyways.. since I use alienbees for my strobes I thought I'd give the Radiopoppers JRx Studios a shot since they could remotely control by strobe power on location, I also decided to buy the RPcubes so I could give them a shot with my speedlites.. holy crap are they a time saver.. I have complete control over the power of my manual flashes from my camera, and can turn them up or down by the turn of a dial.. I shot a wedding a couple weeks ago in a very large room and had a mix of two speedlites and an AB800 and all but maybe 2 or 3 of my shots were spot on to where I needed them to be with regards to my OCF.. it just takes a little time to get used to where each of your flashes/strobes power settings fall on the dials but just like anything with enough practice it becomes second nature.. I'd definitely give em a shot

What metering mode are you using?

I don't use manual flash, but use spot metering and make sure I do an exposure lock on their face when I'm using flash. It seems to get me pretty close most of the time.

Peacefield wrote in post #11216605
I had a real crush of weddings throughout October and continue to plow my way through the PP. I'm really starting to pull my hair out over the limitations of ETTL to read a scene. I usually think to dial it up or back based on white dresses or black tuxes, but too often, there's something else in a scene that "tricks" ETTL; something that may become obvious during PP but was never really apparent to me at the time of the shoot.

I'd like the consistency of manual flash, but I struggle with how I'd apply it given the way I shoot. I'm typically using flash bounced off the ceiling with a large bounce card. I'm roaming the floor with my 24-70 and sometimes shooting a couple at a table or out no the dance floor, but sometimes going wide and getting in larger groups or broader dancing. And for any "events" (father/daughter dance, cake cutting, etc.), I'm using two flashes via infared.

So it's not like I can find an exposure at a distance that works for me based on the environment and shoot with that all night, I'd have to change it repeatedly. So for those of you who work your flash with manual exposure, how do you keep yourself responsive to changing needs. Do you just get one base setting and wing it from there?

Eye-ball the exposure & how much power I need

Seriously though, I used to practice with a tape measure. I'd measure the distance, and how much my flash power needed at 10, 20ft... for the height of the ceiling. Practiced till I could pretty much eye-ball the scene and nail the shot within one or two test shots at 10ft, then just go from there. You'll get pretty consistent exposure this way.

Red Tie Photography wrote in post #11217238
I don't use manual flash, but use spot metering and make sure I do an exposure lock on their face when I'm using flash. It seems to get me pretty close most of the time.

I don't use Manual flash either - too much like my old school computational days in which I was never that good at math.

But like Red, I will do an exposure lock/preflash on something neutral like gray carpettng, midtone clothing, or something similar if that is available. This will get me pretty close also - I too shoot RAW, so I can easily make the adjustment quickly in Bridge, across ranges of similarly exposed images.

CTP wrote in post #11217117
What metering mode are you using?

I'm shooting in M and usually set the camera's exposure so that ambient is 2-3 stops under. I do shoot RAW and, happily, this leaves me just enough to recover even when ETTL really blows it. Though when you come back from more than 1.5 stops or so, it's hard to keep the skin tones from getting funky.

Red Tie Photography wrote in post #11217238
I don't use manual flash, but use spot metering and make sure I do an exposure lock on their face when I'm using flash. It seems to get me pretty close most of the time.

I like it. Are you talking about EL or FEL? (I ask that as someone who only knows FEL exists but has never actually tried it).

Peacefield wrote in post #11217703
I'm shooting in M and usually set the camera's exposure so that ambient is 2-3 stops under. I do shoot RAW and, happily, this leaves me just enough to recover even when ETTL really blows it. Though when you come back from more than 1.5 stops or so, it's hard to keep the skin tones from getting funky.



I like it. Are you talking about EL or FEL? (I ask that as someone who only knows FEL exists but has never actually tried it).

I guess FEL.

The only problem that i have found is that the pre flash confuses people. They think I have taken a picture, so have learned to count down from 3, pre flashing on 2 or so.

Like this. Strobe off the roof, change aperture as required for different parts of the room, use on camera flash if the coverage isn't good enough.

Can you be more specific about which parts of the reception? Speeches, random photos, cake cutting, and first dance are all lit differently.

tim wrote in post #11219654
Can you be more specific about which parts of the reception? Speeches, random photos, cake cutting, and first dance are all lit differently.

Thanks, Tim. It's kind of all of it; just a great variability of results based on little things. For instance, cake cutting isn't usually a problem and I didn't think too much of the wall paper that was on the wall behind the couple at my last wedding. But now that I see it in pictures, I realize that the wallpaper was actually metallic and highly reflective and really fooled the ETTL reading. Sometimes it's just clothing or skin tone, or even one of the DJ's lights in the randomness of the dance floor. There's one venue where I've shot a few times where the reception is held in an all glass conservatory which at night turns into a house of mirrors. Talk about fooling ETTL. ugh.

Red Tie Photography wrote in post #11217238
I don't use manual flash, but use spot metering and make sure I do an exposure lock on their face when I'm using flash. It seems to get me pretty close most of the time.

I just played around with this at home and it is amazingly good. It's logical and I'm plenty familiar with the elements that make it work but I suppose I just never put the pieces together to think of it myself. I'm anxious to see how it will work on my next shoot! Thanks, Bryan.

Basically just use manual flash and don't move around too much. Remember the inverse square law, which in this context basically says the more distance there is between the flash and the subject the less difference a little movement will make to the light falling on them.

I found the best results came from setting a manual flash in two opposing corners, bounced into the corner itself to scatter light in three directions (off the ceiling, left wall, and right wall), metering for those, locking it down, and using the onboard E-TTL bounced with a catchlight card for localized fill.

In other words, the manual flashes are my new ambient, but I'm still using E-TTL on my subjects. Brighter ambient means less reliance on E-TTL to get it 100% every time since it's not the main.

I don't believe in generating ambient light anymore. I make directional light instead because it's more interesting and less plain, flat, standard, etc.

form wrote in post #11222736
I don't believe in generating ambient light anymore. I make directional light instead because it's more interesting and less plain, flat, standard, etc.

Ambient and flat are not synonymous. Hell, even so-called "dramatic" directional light can look like crap if done poorly.