Live View Question

I've never owned a camera with Live View. Currently I'm a 1DsMkII owner, and was wondering about the live view shooting in particular, if it adjusts its actual view as you dial in your exposure time, will it darken or brighten to show you the probable exposure result of that setting and if so, how accurate is this compared to the light meter in the camera, telling you if you're under or over exposed?

I'd like to hear primarily from full frame camera, 5D2 or 1DsMkIII owners, as I have no intension to acquire a crop sensor body at this time.

Cheers!

The Ghost of FM wrote in post #11247970
I've never owned a camera with Live View. Currently I'm a 1DsMkII owner, and was wondering about the live view shooting in particular, if it adjusts its actual view as you dial in your exposure time, will it darken or brighten to show you the probable exposure result of that setting and if so, how accurate is this compared to the light meter in the camera, telling you if you're under or over exposed?

I'd like to hear primarily from full frame camera, 5D2 or 1DsMkIII owners, as I have no intension to acquire a crop sensor body at this time.

Cheers!

Yes it will show exposure simulation if you turn that option on in the live view settings. I find it accurate in most situations but it will only "gain up" so far. Beyond that increasing exposure doesn't always get brighter. Especially noticeable at night or for star shots. The live view screen sometimes stays black even with increasing iso and exposure time.

Sdiver2489 wrote in post #11247980
Yes it will show exposure simulation if you turn that option on in the live view settings.

So if you don't turn on this simulation, what does it show you?

Sdiver2489 wrote in post #11247980
I find it accurate in most situations but it will only "gain up" so far.Beyond that increasing exposure doesn't always get brighter.

I assume you mean by that the screen just goes all white? Or do you mean something else?

Sdiver2489 wrote in post #11247980
Especially noticeable at night or for star shots.

So are you saying this feature is only reliable in dark conditions?

Sdiver2489 wrote in post #11247980
The live view screen sometimes stays black even with increasing iso and exposure time.

I don't understand that? Under what conditions would it stay all black...beyond when you have the lens cap still on?


Cheers!

The Ghost of FM wrote in post #11248095
So if you don't turn on this simulation, what does it show you?

I assume you mean by that the screen just goes all white? Or do you mean something else?

So are you saying this feature is only reliable in dark conditions?

I don't understand that? Under what conditions would it stay all black...beyond when you have the lens cap still on?

1. A normalized exposure that doesn't necessarily look like the real exposure level.
   
2. No, the LCD Live View display has limits on its ability to simulate exposure and beyond that, the simulation may not be accurate. It is an automatic feature that you can either enable or disable. If enabled, the camera does its best to simulate the relative brightness levels in the scene, but for some types of exposure such as night photography, it may mean that the display is too dim. In such cases, it would be better to disable the function so that you can see a normalized view with the understanding that it is not representative of the actual exposure level.
   
3. Just the opposite. In dark conditions, it is usually better to disable exposure simulation so that you can see what is in the scene.
   
4. When it is dark and even high ISO doesn't result in a good exposure. After all, it would be trying to simulate the actual exposure.

Thanks Bill!

This gives a much clearer idea of what the feature can and can't do.

Cheers!

Some of the better side effects is that live view allows you to

• Make very accurate manual focusing possible, with the ability to magnify a selected portion of the screen.
  
• Make a depth of field preview easier to see, if you do it when not having the exposure simulation enabled, since then the camera will normalize the brightness level even when you stop down, which makes the effect easier to see.
  
• Reduce vibrations even more effectively that conventional mirror lockup does.

The Ghost of FM wrote in post #11249219
Thanks Bill!

This gives a much clearer idea of what the feature can and can't do.

Cheers!

You are welcome, and I noticed that one part of your original question ws not answered yet:

The Ghost of FM wrote in post #11247970
.... was wondering about the live view shooting in particular, if it adjusts its actual view as you dial in your exposure time, will it darken or brighten to show you the probable exposure result of that setting and if so, how accurate is this compared to the light meter in the camera, telling you if you're under or over exposed?

In simulation mode, Live View will also emulate exposure compensation in Av or Tv modes as well as the effect of exposure settings in manual. It is important to keep in mind that it is a simulated exposure which tries to qualitatively give the photographer an idea of the overall image brightness and contrast. That obviously means what you see is a bit subjective and depends on the photographer to decide if the exposure is "right". Another visual aid that is available during Exposure Simulation in Live View shooting is a real-time histogram that can be displayed along with the simulated exposure.

I love Live View. I use it a lot for exposure simulation and MF.

Live View is not appreciated by most Canon owners as even less vibration than Mirror lock up (MLU). How can this be? In Live View both the mirror is up and the shutter is open so the sensor can create a live view image. The shot is initiated electronically, with no vibration at all, whereas MLU still has vibration from the shutter opening.
One enables Live View Silent Shooting in the menu and selects mode 1 or 2. I answered this question in another current thread on this forum and give a link to examples demonstrating the improvement of LV Silent Shooting over MLU:

Canon documented this feature with the 40D, 50D, 5DII, and 7D. (it undoubtedly is also in other newer dSLRs, 60D) They promoted it as “silent-mode”. Although not documented by Canon, this same feature (electronic first shutter curtain) is also found in the Rebel XSi/450D, Rebel XS/1000D, and Rebel T1i/500D (& T2i). With these Rebels it is always “on” and there is no “silent-mode” to enable or disable.

In Live View Silent Shooting, mode disabled, the mirror stays up, but the shutter closes then opens to take a shot. It closes again to end the shot and reopens to reinitiate Live View.

In the Silent Shooting mode 1, the mirror also stays up the whole time but the shutter does not close nor reopen to shoot, but stays open and the exposure is initiated electronically. The shutter then closes to end the exposure, then immediately reopens to reinitiate Live View. Continuous shooting is slowed down.

Silent Shooting mode 2 is similar to mode 1, but at the end of the exposure the shutter closes, but does not reopen until your finger pressure is off the shutter button. Continuous is not possible. Thus mode 2 is quieter in that the shutter reopening is delayed to "distribute" the sound over some time period, making it less intrusive.

I did tests to show that there is less vibration with Live View Silent Mode Vs MLU. The difference is visible!

http://forums.dpreview​.com …orum=1032&threa​d=35473092

Mike K

I don't have any, but as far as I've heard, it doesn't work for vibration suppression on the smaller cameras, like the 550D or so. They can't separate mirror movement from shutter movement, so they have to drop the mirror, then lift it again just prior to taking a picture.
This should be because they don't have separate motor drives for the shutter and mirror, like their bigger brothers.

To me, this is hearsay. I don't have any such camera.

Mike K wrote in post #11250787
Live View is not appreciated by most Canon owners as even less vibration than Mirror lock up (MLU). How can this be? In Live View both the mirror is up and the shutter is open so the sensor can create a live view image. The shot is initiated electronically, with no vibration at all, whereas MLU still has vibration from the shutter opening.
One enables Live View Silent Shooting in the menu and selects mode 1 or 2. I answered this question in another current thread on this forum and give a link to examples demonstrating the improvement of LV Silent Shooting over MLU:

Canon documented this feature with the 40D, 50D, 5DII, and 7D. (it undoubtedly is also in other newer dSLRs, 60D) They promoted it as “silent-mode”. Although not documented by Canon, this same feature (electronic first shutter curtain) is also found in the Rebel XSi/450D, Rebel XS/1000D, and Rebel T1i/500D (& T2i). With these Rebels it is always “on” and there is no “silent-mode” to enable or disable.

In Live View Silent Shooting, mode disabled, the mirror stays up, but the shutter closes then opens to take a shot. It closes again to end the shot and reopens to reinitiate Live View.

In the Silent Shooting mode 1, the mirror also stays up the whole time but the shutter does not close nor reopen to shoot, but stays open and the exposure is initiated electronically. The shutter then closes to end the exposure, then immediately reopens to reinitiate Live View. Continuous shooting is slowed down.

Silent Shooting mode 2 is similar to mode 1, but at the end of the exposure the shutter closes, but does not reopen until your finger pressure is off the shutter button. Continuous is not possible. Thus mode 2 is quieter in that the shutter reopening is delayed to "distribute" the sound over some time period, making it less intrusive.

I did tests to show that there is less vibration with Live View Silent Mode Vs MLU. The difference is visible!

http://forums.dpreview​.com …orum=1032&threa​d=35473092

Mike K

Interesting, Mike. I never actually considered that LV and silent shooting could be combined to give me this really useful functionality. When doing astrophotography, even the slightest vibration of just a few pixels magnitude is significant.

BTW, your link needs to be fixed.

EDIT: Since you fixed the link (see the next post below), I fixed it in the quote here, also

Bill Boehme wrote in post #11252883
BTW, your link needs to be fixed.

Thanks, I fixed the thread link. The original thread has the images of the test and other links to Live View Silent Shooting, including an email by Chuck Westfall from Canon.
http://forums.dpreview​.com …orum=1032&threa​d=35473092
Mike K

apersson850 wrote in post #11251930
I don't have any, but as far as I've heard, it doesn't work for vibration suppression on the smaller cameras, like the 550D or so. They can't separate mirror movement from shutter movement, so they have to drop the mirror, then lift it again just prior to taking a picture.
This should be because they don't have separate motor drives for the shutter and mirror, like their bigger brothers.

There are some differences in how the various models implement this Silent Shooting feature, but with the Rebels its always on by default during Live View. It appears that Canon DSLRs with Live View use electronic first curtain shutter for Silent shooting.
The Rebels do drop the mirror after the shutter closes. It must reopen quickly to resume Live View. You are correct in that the Rebels only have a single motor for shutter and mirror, while the other Canon dSLRs have 2.
See the bottom of this link, in a letter from Chuck Westfall of Canon.
http://krebsmicro.com/​Canon_EFSC/index.html

Mike K

Darn fine idea. Not only had I not given live a shake, I had not even thought about using it in any of my units that have the ability. I will however turn that had not, into a going too.

Ghost thanks for asking a question that had not even crossed my mind and I have a few units that are capable.

Mike and Bill, thanks for the sort out. I'll set one of the 40D's up and try it. Then when I get a chance I'll see if it works in the D's, that would be just to darn outstanding.
A Toast is due!

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I don't like the live view on my 7D. Very sluggish. The one thing Sony beats everyone at is live view. My 2003 Sony F717 has awesome live view. I was unpleasanty surprised how sluggish it was shooting simple tabletop stuff. The one feature I really miss from the 7D.