Was told as second shooter I cant use my images

I worked as a second shooter with a friend for my first wedding and was told I could use my images for portfolio. After the wedding I uploaded a single picture to my flickr and sent the link to a few family members because they were anxious to see how I did and then I removed it. My friend flipped out and demanded I give him the images back and said I no longer have rights to the images. I did not sign anything ... The bride and groom signed a contract but none of it pertained to me. I got a lot of great images and it would be a shame to not be able to use them on my website. I posted a thread on this a while ago but I need a answer on weather or not I can legally use my images now? We no longer talk due to this incident. Thanks

In the USA? If so, then you own 100% of the rights to the images unless you sign over the rights to someone else.

Elsewhere? I have no idea.

Edit: Should you listen to the requests of the hiring photog within reason? Probably. And working with family/friends normally doesn't end well.

I forgot to mention he had me use his other camera for the wedding. Seems like he knew what he was doing from the start.

Are you an employee (W-4) or an independent contractor (SSN and 1099 needed)?

yes sir

Yes to which one? It makes all the difference.

I wonder what the exif says on the images that you captured using his camera. Does it have his copyright info? Just thinking about this whole ordeal.

Now that I think about it, I loaned my MK3 to my photog friend and he shot with it the entire day at a volleyball tournament. Several of those images have sold, but I don't have any squabble about it because I know he used my camera and I don't expect any return or anything. He just didn't have a camera to use, so we shared my equipment. Note: The reason he didn't bring a camera is because he was going to run the viewing stations and sales table, but we decided not to set up the first day so that left him available to shoot but no gear. Funny watching a Nikon guy try to use a MK3.

independent contractor

They belong to you then.

The copyright on the exif is blank....Thanks Adam

Nick, you haven't mentioned if you are in the US or Canada or soemwhere else. In north America, you own those images no matter what if you haven't signed anything... At this point I would suggest your "friend" is no friend at all and is merely trying to prevent you from becoming a competitor. I suggest you find another photog that you can learn under (if indeed that is your intent) and have a written agreement with him/her before any shoots.

Good luck

Reibs

Hm, i remember reading that in Canada, if you are payed, the default ownership goes to whoever paid for the photo as they default to a work for hire, unless signed otherwise in a contract.

Might not be true, since i don't remember the whole text, but i was reading that while looking up copyright differences between Canada and the US in reference to registration of copyrights.

Reibs wrote in post #11250912
Nick, you haven't mentioned if you are in the US or Canada or soemwhere else. In north America, you own those images no matter what if you haven't signed anything... At this point I would suggest your "friend" is no friend at all and is merely trying to prevent you from becoming a competitor. I suggest you find another photog that you can learn under (if indeed that is your intent) and have a written agreement with him/her before any shoots.

Good luck

Reibs

I believe that the OP is in the US.

I dont like the idea of breaking relationships but sounds like you guys need to have a candid discussion about what bothers him about you posting these images.

This is just a question, but did you post an image before he had a chance to? If so maybe he is just upset that potentially people had a chance to view your (the 2nd shooters) images before his.

That kind of stuff bothers me when I let people 2nd shoot, then I never tell them to give me all the images and that they can't post anything.

Yes, I am in the US. I tried talking with him about the situation several times but he refuses to let me use them. He said I was his employee but never told me this before.. just said he needed a second shooter. Our friendship was coming to a end slowly anyways. All he does is bash my work and complain I went with canon over pentax. At this point hes more of a distraction to my photography then a caring freind he once was. I am not saying this is a fact, but people have told me my work is much better than his so I don't know if jealousy is playing a part here or not.