Was told as second shooter I cant use my images

RD, yes, I think that is part of this equation that most miss ... all the liabilities that ensue with employment. And you never know when someone who you simply paid a few bucks to as an "assistant" may come back and demand to be treated as an employee and want worker's comp, etc., let alone demand Copyright to images in a shoot that you contracted for, provided all the equipment and production work, and all they did was show up, do what you asked, took your money, and left.

RDKirk wrote in post #11301410
The law says,


So even if "If you show up to a job where somebody tells you what to do and when to do it, and for that you're rewarded with a paycheck," the client had better be ready to accept the photographer as an "employee" along with all the other tax and labor ramifications that "employee" implies.

For photographers who hire second shooters: Do you know your liability under workman's compensation laws if your second shooter gets injured on the job? If he's your "employee" for copyright purposes, are you willing to acccept him as an "employee" in all the other ways? Something to talk to a lawyer and a CPA about...and have hammered out in a contract.

1. When you "work" for another photographer or photo studio, you should be following their rules. Otherwise, don't take the job.
2. Your images are not "yours" if you are shooting on behalf of another studio - UNLESS - there is an agreement beforehand that you can use the images.
3. A lot of photographers allow their second shooters to use their images for promotion but not publication. You can show them to potential clients when you meet with them but you cannot put them on the internet or blog or your own website. This is understandable. It is not your client that you shot, it is theirs. You represent the primary photographer and they are giving the client images from "their" studio.
4. Written agreement or verbal agreement, there should be a mutual understanding when you shoot for another photographer and then you can choose whether or not to do the job based on your agreement of the terms. If you change your mind later (Wow, these are so good, I want to show the world!) you are violating your professional ethics. It's bad for the business.

Some photographers will let you use the images you shot and some won't. If you don't like that then don't take the job. It couldn't possibly pay that much that you can't turn it down if using your images means that much to you. Most people who are starting out just appreciate the practice and experience. Building your portfolio doesn't have to be only for web use.
If you love your images that much from another photog's wedding gig, take a select group of your favorites and have them professionally printed large, matted, and use them for your client meetings. The web can be less personal than a beautiful print and who knows, maybe if they are done really well, your prospective clients may be convinced to purchase a lot of enlargements for their wedding! Find the opportunities where you can.

http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=H8VlcbndXdM

What? Just replace the word drink with the word work.

Lou, I don't know how else this can be said. In the USA, if you are not an employee (1099, independent contractor, Another business, etc.) and you take an image anywhere of anything (except for a few instances), then you own the copyright and can do whatever you want with your image however you want to, whenever you want to unless, you SIGN away any rights. You can print out a thousand copies and give them away, you can sell them images to a publisher (it is their responsibility to obtain a model release if not used editorially, although it is customary for the photographer to obtain this before hand), you can put it on the web for everyone to see, and the person who hired you doesn't have a say legally. You can also send the person who hired you a cease and desist if they are using the images outside the scope of the original agreement (which should be in writing).

If you want to work with the person more, then follow their rules. If you don't agree with their made up rules that aren't in writing, tell them to leave you alone and come back with an attorney. It is that simple.

But, you have to decide for yourself if you want to be a jerk and potentially loose future jobs, or suck it up as experience and move on.

Just my 2 cents here. I have only read the first few posts and the last couple.

TO ME...I have been hired as a 2nd shooter and could care less what happens to the images because it wasn't my job to begin with. Even if I take an amazing shot, I am there as an extension of the first photographer. I feel they belong to the first photographer.

You want to keep images for yourself? Get your own jobs.