Author wanting free photos for book

Since I'm not going to be a pro pet photographer any time soon having a $10 book with my dog's picture in it isn't going to be big for my resume lol. This isn't like People magazine or Nat geo where I could randomly be seen by someone who cares.

Here's his response he gave me today:

Tealtele wrote in post #11273519
Since I'm not going to be a pro pet photographer any time soon having a $10 book with my dog's picture in it isn't going to be big for my resume lol. This isn't like People magazine or Nat geo where I could randomly be seen by someone who cares.

Here's his response he gave me today:

That right there is the wrong attitude IMHO, having your photos printed in "any" book or magazine is a start, specially when you never had it done before, it's a good way to get your foot in the door, I plan on donating some of my work to some hospitals and other institutions, don't think for one minute is just out of the goodness of my heart.

enrigonz wrote in post #11272279
Yeah, I know you can and perhaps I didn't mention that directly but I put myself in other people's shoes, and I wouldn't pay a photographer to do a job for me unless he/she can demonstrate he/she has the capabilities to get the job done right and having a photograph you took published in a book or magazine goes a long way in your resume, is the price you have to pay for advertising, that's at least how I see it. Way to many rookies out there with a DSLR thinking they can make money and if you can prove to stand above the rest, you're a step further than those that don't have any work to really show how good you can be.

Giving a photo away free to be published doesn't mean it was amazing enough for you to be hired to do a job. All it means is you gave away a photo and are an easy mark for future plundering due to a lack of business acumen.

enrigonz wrote in post #11273762
That right there is the wrong attitude IMHO, having your photos printed in "any" book or magazine is a start, specially when you never had it done before, it's a good way to get your foot in the door, I plan on donating some of my work to some hospitals and other institutions, don't think for one minute is just out of the goodness of my heart.

While that seems to be a common opinion, let me add this:
Free work does lead you to more work, problem being you have set a price and a standard. Typically they are expecting the same deal. Free.
You see it everyday. It really does not make any sense.
But, that's just my opinion (oh, and been there before,) yours may differ.

zagiace wrote in post #11273824
While that seems to be a common opinion, let me add this:
Free work does lead you to more work, problem being you have set a price and a standard. Typically they are expecting the same deal. Free.
You see it everyday. It really does not make any sense.
But, that's just my opinion (oh, and been there before,) yours may differ.

Call it a "donation, it is worth what is worth, you're simply donating it. I think some people miss the point on this, they think that if you "give" it away for free you will need to keep giving it away. I know there's a fine line in there somewhere and only the photographer needs to know where to draw it. If you're a well known established photographer in your community, you really don't need to donate anything but if you do it might even resurrect a name of a studio or photographer that might be in need of work. I guess there's different ways to view this, and for some pro photographers giving work away is a big NO-NO, and I have to respect that.

cdifoto wrote in post #11273817
Giving a photo away free to be published doesn't mean it was amazing enough for you to be hired to do a job. All it means is you gave away a photo and are an easy mark for future plundering due to a lack of business acumen.

Not necessarily, but I respect your opinion.

enrigonz wrote in post #11273901
Not necessarily, but I respect your opinion.

Okay let me put it in terms of portraiture.

I wanted to break into seniors. I didn't have an "in" so I offered a good looking, popular girl a free session. Now I limited it to my time...she had to actually buy photos she liked. I figured this free session would open up the world since she could be a referral.

I was right, yet I was wrong. It got me a crapload more sessions, but only free ones. I sold a few prints with a relatively large order here and there but it ultimately wasn't an average I could actually live on. I stopped doing free sessions and established packages. No bookings. Finally, later...MUCH later, I got my first full price paid booking. She LOVED her photos and referred me to people who also signed on for full price paid bookings and THEY loved their photos and referred me to even more people.

You see, a referral is stronger when the person referring had to actually pay for the product/service they're recommending.

Which referral do you think carries more weight, which one do you think brings the money, and which one do you think generally wastes your time?

My current minimum is that "relatively large order" that I got on occasion.

enrigonz wrote in post #11273887
Call it a "donation, it is worth what is worth, you're simply donating it. I think some people miss the point on this, they think that if you "give" it away for free you will need to keep giving it away.

If I want to donate my photo to someone it'll be a charity or nonprofit, mostly on my terms, not just give it to some random person so that they can make a quick buck off of it. I think you miss the point on this- why would they PAY for these shots when you'll give them away for free? At what point do they say "oh now you're a pro we'll start paying you"? Instead, the people who see these pictures and want to make their own books say "lets find beginners who are willing to send us free photos too!"

So what you're saying is that having my name in tiny print under a photo(perhaps even in the back instead), in some random book is going to bring me paying work in my community? First off, these are not hugely popular books that someone in my community would be likely to buy in the first place, so you're saying I'd bring it in with my resume and show it to say...The photo editor for a major newspaper up here for an internship since I'm majoring in photojournalism. Do you really think he cares that I got a picture of my dog in some book? Like I said,I'm not going to be a pet photographer other than my own pets.

Perhaps if that studio or photographer wants free work. The point of this is your work is only worth what you value it and no one pays for what is being given out for free.

cdifoto wrote in post #11273934
Okay let me put it in terms of portraiture.

I wanted to break into seniors. I didn't have an "in" so I offered a good looking, popular girl a free session. Now I limited it to my time...she had to actually buy photos she liked. I figured this free session would open up the world since she could be a referral.

I was right, yet I was wrong. It got me a crapload more sessions, but only free ones. I sold a few prints with a relatively large order here and there but it ultimately wasn't an average I could actually live on. I stopped doing free sessions and established packages. No bookings. Finally, later...MUCH later, I got my first full price paid booking. She LOVED her photos and referred me to people who also signed on for full price paid bookings and THEY loved their photos and referred me to even more people.

You see, a referral is stronger when the person referring had to actually pay for the product/service they're recommending.

Which referral do you think carries more weight, which one do you think brings the money, and which one do you think generally wastes your time?

My current minimum is that "relatively large order" that I got on occasion.

Very well put!

I shoot RE and the best referral I can get is one where the clients says to me 'John Doe said your services are money well spent.'

You are absolutely right when you say the referral from a paying client is best! They will tell the other person that you are worth the money. There are a lot of RE agents having a tough time in this market, so when a top producers tells another agent my photos are worth the price....they listen.

People who get something for nothing don't have anything invested in it, so why would they refer it?

TGrundvig wrote in post #11274035
People who get something for nothing don't have anything invested in it, so why would they refer it?

And why would anyone listen when they do refer it?

If you think of the person who got the free pics as a paid spokesman and the person who paid for the pics to be your best friend of 20 years....who would you listen to?

When you give photos away hoping they'll refer you, what you're really doing is paying them. If you give someone the equivalent of what you plan to charge $200 for, all you did was pay someone $200 to say good things about you. People don't take it to heart when someone who is paid to say good things says good things. People do take it to heart when someone forked over their hard earned cash and said it was worth every penny spent.

TGrundvig wrote in post #11274035
People who get something for nothing don't have anything invested in it, so why would they refer it?

They might refer it, but the conversation would go like this:
author #1: "Hah nice book, did you have to pay for the photography though?"
author #2: "Yeah, who doesn't?"
author #1: "Noone does, are you kidding me?, look at this guy for example, mike over here, ask him for free photos of his dogs and he'll be more than obliged simply for photo credit and a free copy of the book!"

An example where I screwed up and gave my stuff away for free:
When I was first getting into sports for my college newspaper I did give my photos to a tennis player I had known from my high school on the tennis team at my school, and then she told the other girls on the team and pretty soon they all wanted the photos. Then about a week later I met the lady I had accidentally ripped off whose job is to take pictures of the teams at my school and she sells the disks to the players at the end of the season. Had I met her before I wouldn't have given them away. Luckily she's got like at least a dozen teams at multiple schools and hopefully I didn't cut into her profit too much.

Point being, I try not to step on other people's shoes now and hope that my own shoes don't get stepped on too much when I eventually want to make money on this myself.

I wouldn't call that a screw up. I'd call that a favor for a friend that snowballed. You didn't really do it hoping it would grow your business.

I shoot some stuff for free too. Like the high school girls' basketball. I'm not a sports photographer really and I guarantee absolutely nothing, but it gives me something to do in the winter and the girls' basketball program is generally ignored in that school so they appreciate what little support it provides. I do it just because I like those girls. Nobody else bothers until the end of the season.

cdifoto wrote in post #11274140
I wouldn't call that a screw up. I'd call that a favor for a friend that snowballed. You didn't really do it hoping it would grow your business.

I shoot some stuff for free too. Like the high school girls' basketball. I'm not a sports photographer really and I guarantee absolutely nothing, but it gives me something to do in the winter and the girls' basketball program is generally ignored in that school so they appreciate what little support it provides. I do it just because I like those girls. Nobody else bothers until the end of the season.

True, but I still wouldn't have done it knowing that they were most likely just getting the pictures from me so that they wouldn't have to pay at the end of the season for photos.

Yeah a lot of our sports are generally ignored photograph wise too, but she goes there all season, doesn't stay the whole game because there's sometimes multiple games a day she has to photograph but still by the end of the season there's a photo of every kid from almost every game.

I only gave them like 2 pictures each from I think one game, but still.

Tealtele wrote in post #11274217
True, but I still wouldn't have done it knowing that they were most likely just getting the pictures from me so that they wouldn't have to pay at the end of the season for photos.

Yeah a lot of our sports are generally ignored photograph wise too, but she goes there all season, doesn't stay the whole game because there's sometimes multiple games a day she has to photograph but still by the end of the season there's a photo of every kid from almost every game.

I only gave them like 2 pictures each from I think one game, but still.

Yeah I would have felt slightly bad about that too. But only slightly since the intent wasn't malicious.

Then again my goal is to put every senior portrait photographer in my area out of business.