learning a lesson. Big time.

Took some photos to help the wife of a friend out. Signed model release etc and I agreed they could use the images for their purposes and it was agreed that I would use them for self-promotion etc on my end, as I was charging very little.
Sent a few small images over so they could see how p/p was going. They started to demand i remove pics from my flickr and I said no.
Somewhere along the way, I lost (duh) the model release, and contacted them for a copy. They implied that I never had one, had no right to use the images, and that they had "joint copyright", and that I was to show up at their home, with a disc containing hi-res images and all raw files!
The "friend" works for a high end photog company in Manhattan, and told me how this was going to happen, and how this was "typical of the client/photographer relationship". he also stated I had no rights tomy images,including using them, and then threw in a compliment about how he'd shown some of the guys in the city, and how they all said i did a great job!
I thanked him for the compliment, and than told him that he would, upon receipt of PAYMENT (yes-- he hadn't even paid me yet!) and receipt of a NEW model release from the model, get a license from me to use the images for promotion of his wife's company, and nothing more.
Many lessons were learned here..not least of which are
Duplicate model release (scan and save to computer along with the images)
Be very specific as to usage rights
Get every little detail in writing-especially when doing favours for a "friend"
I was sickened by the way these clients tried to bully me..It is important to know your rights, and to know that as creator of images, you have sole copyright ownership, unless you are mad enough to sign that over.

Good for you!

Good for you. Did you take them off Flickr? Wondering if I saw these already.

Next lesson learned... use the Enter button on your keyboard so you don't have a big jumbled pile of mess for people to read.

So what is the outcome? You kinda left us hanging...

johendley wrote in post #11305790
Duplicate model release (scan and save to computer along with the images)

I have them sign the release and then while they are there I take a picture of the release with their photo ID along side. This gives me an electronic copy of the release plus gives me an easy way of matching a name with a face.

krb wrote in post #11306431
I have them sign the release and then while they are there I take a picture of the release with their photo ID along side. This gives me an electronic copy of the release plus gives me an easy way of matching a name with a face.

I do this too and have them holding both and take a snap shot

Thanks for sharing, I will start doing the above mentioned from now on. Better safe than sorry. Sometimes you think you know someone until a situation like this presents itself. Hopefully you didn't lose a friend in the process.

That's a great idea..I will remember to do that in future.
Cosmo, the pics were of the dancer (ballet).I think you saw them.
sctbiggs. Bollocks.enter.It reads just fine.enter.lol
The outcome is they are getting a disc with a license for limited usage rights, as we had originally agreed.The model (dancer) forwarded me another model release and I have since spoken with her. She will be getting a disc with her images for personal use/port. Just because they tried to be completely underhanded, doesn't mean I have to be. I gave my word, and will honour it.
Bottom line is it was very disappointing. I went well above and beyond for them, and they tried to stick it to me....
oh, and ni$mo350, friends don't do that...

yah ... friends.. i tend not to take pics of friends.. and if i do.. its for free... unless they are friends that i dont mind losing.. so they not really friends to begin with.. ha ..

I will clarify, the "friend' is an aquaintance who I was on friendly terms with...Not someone I hang with ..He likes my work, and suggested his wife use me.

johendley wrote in post #11307898
I will clarify, the "friend' is an aquaintance who I was on friendly terms with...Not someone I hang with ..He likes my work, and suggested his wife use me.

And use you was exactly the thing they were trying to do.

Red Tie Photography wrote in post #11308017
And use you was exactly the thing they were trying to do.

Sadly, that is the truth right there. Too bad for them that I know my rights. Too bad for me that I had a whole bunch of extra hassle just to get to where we should have been in the first place.

Thanks for posting this insight into the situation, what I find more interesting bearing mind you stood your ground is this:-

Sent a few small images over so they could see how p/p was going. They started to demand i remove pics from my flickr and I said no.
Somewhere along the way, I lost (duh) the model release, and contacted them for a copy. They implied that I never had one, had no right to use the images, and that they had "joint copyright", and that I was to show up at their home, with a disc containing hi-res images and all raw files!
The "friend" works for a high end photog company in Manhattan, and told me how this was going to happen, and how this was "typical of the client/photographer relationship". he also stated I had no rights tomy images,including using them

I have emphasised the most relevent part of that paragraph, why? Well it does give me pause to wonder just how many other togs he has "pushed around" to their detriment

johendley wrote in post #11308502
Too bad for me that I had a whole bunch of extra hassle just to get to where we should have been in the first place.

I disagree ... You learned a invaluable lesson, and it didn't really cost you anything, other than a bit of a headache. From what you've written it's clear you have a new set of procedures in place to protect yourself from clients -- expecially "friends". I'm glad that things seemed to have worked out for you.

Great job!!!

It's stories like these that scare me away from professional people photography. I'll stick with wildlife. lol