Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Guest
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photo Sharing & Discussion Weddings & Other Family Events 
Thread started 23 Nov 2010 (Tuesday) 12:39
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

Tips to becoming a second shooter

 
Red ­ Tie ­ Photography
Goldmember
Avatar
3,575 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Nov 2009
Location: San Diego
     
Nov 23, 2010 12:39 |  #1

Every month it seems we get at least one thread asking how to become a second shooter, and we seem to reiterate the same advice each time. I thought it would be a good idea to make more of a comprehensive list that we can point to each time this subject is asked. I can edit this post, adding in other suggestions that are made.

This list comes from my experience, as well as advice from others. A little background from me, I bought my first camera in December 2008, learned the basics in 2009, and decided to try to get into wedding photography. March 2010 I shot my first wedding as a second, and shot 25 weddings to this date. These are some recommendations.

What to do:

1. Love shooting people, and more importantly, weddings. : When ever I tell people I shoot weddings, they automatically assume that is where the money is. Although it can be financially satisfying, doing it for the love of money, rather than the event, will burn you out and create poor work. Weddings are too important to just do it for a quick buck (and the buck isn't that quick).

2. Be able to show a relevant portfolio. Pictures of bands, or of clubs, self portraits and pictures or landscape pictures are not going to give confidence to a main shooter. They want to see that you are able to produce good images, but within the context of a wedding. If you do not have any wedding pictures, (and I know this is hard. You cant get wedding pictures unless you shoot at a wedding, but people wont hire you to shoot unless they see previous samples) be able to show things that directly correlate to weddings. Portraits (family and individual), engagement sessions, detail shots of rings and flower arrangements (not too many, but enough to show you can do it). This shows the main photographer that you have the ability to see and compose a good image.

When looking through photographers, look at their work, find ones you like, and contact them. Shoot with photographers that you have a similar style with, as they are more likely to shoot with you. Also, when you contact them, mention specific images you like and what you like about them. For example, "I love the way you lit the image of the bride in the doorway. That along with the strong composition make it a compelling image" rather than "your pictures are pretty. Can I shoot with you?"

Do not send out impersonal emails - I have tried it. I created a good template for a general person, and just edited it with their information. I probably emailed 30+ people, only got a few responses saying they already have second shooters. Calling is another option, but still doesn't work very well.

When emailing (anyone for that matter, photographers, clients, etc.) be coherent and grammatically correct. DONT CREATE HUGE PARAGRAPHS TYPE IN ALL CAPS SEPLL THINGS WRONG OR FORGET TO USE COMMAS OR USE TEXTING LANGUAGE LOL. It looks horribly unprofessional and will not get you anywhere.

Offer to shoot for free for the first time and/or carry bags. Each photographer I shot with, I shot for free for the first time. This proves your skill to the photographer, and gives a sign of good faith. Do not automatically expect they will call you back for a paying gig, but it will at least help with your portfolio (if they allow you to use it). Even carrying bags will help you see what the photographer sees, informs you of the flow of the day, and gets your foot in the door.

Try to set up a meeting with the photographer. Offer to buy them a meal. It will be a great time to see if your personalities mesh, and time for a great first impression. Dress to impress, and bring portfolio material if you have it.

Have a (good) website. My mom has a point and shoot and a Facebook (not really, but you get the point) and she is not a photographer. Although a Facebook page is great for advertising, it is not consistent with the professional manner you want to portray. They can be had for under a few hundred dollars, and can really add credibility. If you dont have a few hundred dollars, do more family shoots to earn it.

Have professional gear. This is the hard part. It is like the chicken and the egg, how do you get gear when you cant get a job, but it is necessary. Although a great photographer can take great images with a rebel and a kit lens, they have experience - you do not. I didnt start getting second shooting gigs until I had my 5d2 and 40d, 24-70L and 70-200mm f2.8L, along with a flash or two and a few other lenses. Being prepared is essential.

Be up front about your intentions. Do you only want to second shoot, do you eventually want to become potential competition, or do you want to join their studio? Are you shooting with more than one photographer, planning on leaving the city for school? Lying about it early makes for troubles later, and in a business where relationships are key, I recommend not burning bridges.


Once you become a second shooter These will be tips once you secure a job as a second shooter.

Get a contract. I created my contract myself, and the purpose of it is not to necessarily stand up in court (hope it never comes down to that). The reason I like to have a contract is to spell everything out so there is no question. Image rights, who is doing the editing, how you will give them the images, when you will get paid and how, etc.

Dress appropriately for the event. If you don't know, ask what they are wearing. I come from the idea that I like to overdress, so I wear a tie to each wedding (thus the "Red Tie"). Some events may call for flip flops and a Hawaiian shirt, but most often you will be dressed head to toe in black (again, depending on the style of the main photographer and the attire for the event). Make sure you it is comfortable and you can wear it all day - especially your shoes.

Come prepared This should go without saying, but make sure your batteries are charged, memory cards are empty and you are ready to shoot.

Keep track of the schedule I like to be able to have a schedule, know what time it is, where we are and what is next. This lets the main shooter worry about the shots and not what is happening next.

Have snacks and drinks Its always a good idea to bring snacks and a water. During the wedding, obviously dont drink any alcohol. When there is a break and you find you arent needed for something, try and grab the Primary some water.

Have a stack of the main's business cards/marketing material It is one of my pet peeves when I ask someone for a card and they dont have one. You are to never hand out your own card, so when somenone asks where they can find the photos or how to book you for a wedding, give them the Primary's card.

Know your place This can be kind of difficult on your first run with each shooter, but it is important to know what they expect of you. Some will want your input and invite you to pose the couple, while others will want you to hold a stand and be quiet.

Never embarass the main photographer If you see something out of place, talk to them quitely to see if they want it changed. If you know they havent done a certain shot yet, there may be a reason for it, and ask them when clients are not around.

There is plenty more advice, but I think this can get us started. Any other contributions I will add to this post to hopefully make a comprehensive list.


Bryan
Gear List (external link)
San Diego Wedding Photography - Red Tie Photography (external link)
Red Tie Photography Blog (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
cdifoto
Don't get pissy with me
Avatar
34,090 posts
Likes: 44
Joined Dec 2005
     
Nov 23, 2010 13:33 |  #2

I don't recommend calling. I hate getting calls from random people who aren't potential clients.


Did you lose Digital Photo Professional (DPP)? Get it here (external link). Cursing at your worse-than-a-map reflector? Check out this vid! (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
bigarchi
Senior Member
Avatar
962 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Mar 2008
Location: upstate ny
     
Nov 23, 2010 15:27 as a reply to  @ cdifoto's post |  #3

great idea Bryan!
I don't have time to elaborate right at this moment, but we should also mention 2nd shooter contracts
and what to expect as far as photo usage rights (even though it ultimately depends on contract, experience, relationships, etc.)
Or maybe that could be another thread, i dunno :)


~Mitch

my gear and feedback

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Red ­ Tie ­ Photography
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Avatar
3,575 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Nov 2009
Location: San Diego
     
Nov 23, 2010 15:51 |  #4

bigarchi wrote in post #11334742 (external link)
great idea Bryan!
I don't have time to elaborate right at this moment, but we should also mention 2nd shooter contracts
and what to expect as far as photo usage rights (even though it ultimately depends on contract, experience, relationships, etc.)
Or maybe that could be another thread, i dunno :)

Good idea. This originally started out as tips to becoming a second shooter, but it would be a good idea to add to it to be an all inclusive second shooter guide. Ill add a section titled something along the lines of "Once you get a job as a second shooter" or something


Bryan
Gear List (external link)
San Diego Wedding Photography - Red Tie Photography (external link)
Red Tie Photography Blog (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Ahtz
Senior Member
Avatar
292 posts
Joined Sep 2009
     
Nov 23, 2010 15:53 as a reply to  @ bigarchi's post |  #5

Great thread. I was one who asked the question last month.  :o This type of thread should be a sticky


Website (external link)
2x Canon 50d, Canon 17-55 2.8 IS, Canon 85 1.8, Canon 50 1.4, Canon 70-200 2.8 IS, 580 EX II, 430 EX II, PW Flex's

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
DStanic
Cream of the Crop
6,148 posts
Likes: 7
Joined Oct 2007
Location: Canada
     
Nov 23, 2010 19:06 |  #6

Good thread! I am not a pro but I have worked with one (for free) and shot a handful of weddings. My friend got into photography a short while ago and wanted to work with my doing weddings. I kept bugging him to buy a flash and a f/2.8 zoom lens but he never did, which showed he did not care (buy it with a credit card if you have to!) doesn't have to be an L lens or the newest flash, just ones that will do the job. If a second shooter wants to get paid they NEED this stuff, otherwise come for free and hold my off camera flash....


Sony A6000, 16-50PZ, 55-210, 35mm 1.8 OSS
Canon 60D, 30D
Tamron 28-75 2.8, Tamron 17-35, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 85mm 1.8

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Red ­ Tie ­ Photography
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Avatar
3,575 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Nov 2009
Location: San Diego
     
Nov 25, 2010 12:32 |  #7

I have added a few tips to what to do once you become a second shooter. I know I am missing a lot of advice, so any help would be appreciated.


Bryan
Gear List (external link)
San Diego Wedding Photography - Red Tie Photography (external link)
Red Tie Photography Blog (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Mayniyak
Senior Member
256 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Sep 2010
     
Nov 26, 2010 23:20 |  #8

I've actually been thinking of getting into wedding photography too - if I'm going to make money from my photography I think it's what I'd like to be shooting most. None of this is stuff I hadn't thought of on my own (most of it is common business sense), but it's still good to hear it from someone who's done it :).

I do have a question though - is having two bodies a usual expectation for second photographers? I already have a 5DmkII, 24-70L, and so on...but I don't have a second body. If so then I'd just bite the bullet and pick up a 40D or 50D (because I obviously wouldn't be taken seriously with a Rebel lol). Otherwise I'd like to wait until I've made a few bucks before buying one, and I'd probably make it a 7D at that point :).




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
RT ­ McAllister
Senior Member
973 posts
Joined Nov 2009
     
Nov 27, 2010 12:37 |  #9

Nice thread but why not mention just skipping all of this and shooting solo for free?

Not to say you won't learn anything from a pro but you will be forced to adopt your own style vs. mimicking somebody else's.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Red ­ Tie ­ Photography
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Avatar
3,575 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Nov 2009
Location: San Diego
     
Nov 27, 2010 16:09 |  #10

RT McAllister wrote in post #11353898 (external link)
Nice thread but why not mention just skipping all of this and shooting solo for free?

Not to say you won't learn anything from a pro but you will be forced to adopt your own style vs. mimicking somebody else's.

This is from my experience. I tried to shoot my cousins wedding for free, and thank God she had hired a pro. I thought I was ready, and needless to say I was not.
Since I have shot with so many different pros, each having a little different style, it has allowed me to create my own style based on what I like from each of theirs. I dont think you can point to my whole style and say I learned it all from one person. I think becoming a second shooter was key to my developmental process.

All that being said, people will continue to ask how to become a second shooter, so I think the tips would help those people.


Bryan
Gear List (external link)
San Diego Wedding Photography - Red Tie Photography (external link)
Red Tie Photography Blog (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
V-Wiz
Goldmember
Avatar
2,255 posts
Joined Sep 2009
Location: Southern California
     
Nov 29, 2010 11:38 |  #11

Thanks for the advice. Im thinking of being a second shooter also. Or a helper.


Gripped 5D Mark II l 24-105 F/4 L l 70-200 F/4 L l Tokina 12-24 F4 l 50mm 1.8 l Sigma 600 Mirror l B+W KSM CPL l B+W 6stop ND filter l Hitech 0.6 GND l YN-468 Flash l Kenko Pro 300 1.4 TC l Induro Tripod, Vanguard 250 Ballhead.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Red ­ Tie ­ Photography
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Avatar
3,575 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Nov 2009
Location: San Diego
     
Nov 29, 2010 14:57 |  #12

V-Wiz wrote in post #11363878 (external link)
Thanks for the advice. Im thinking of being a second shooter also. Or a helper.

Where are you located? Southern California is hugely saturated, but that also means there could be a good amount of photographers looking for help. If you are seriously interested in it, I would recommend you start contacting photographers now. Once they get heavy into the season, it is likely that they will be set with their seconds/assistants. Now is a good time I would think, as second shooters grow to either start their own business, grow within the business, or realized how much work it was and are getting out of the game.


Bryan
Gear List (external link)
San Diego Wedding Photography - Red Tie Photography (external link)
Red Tie Photography Blog (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
V-Wiz
Goldmember
Avatar
2,255 posts
Joined Sep 2009
Location: Southern California
     
Nov 30, 2010 11:05 |  #13

Red Tie Photography wrote in post #11364994 (external link)
Where are you located? Southern California is hugely saturated, but that also means there could be a good amount of photographers looking for help. If you are seriously interested in it, I would recommend you start contacting photographers now. Once they get heavy into the season, it is likely that they will be set with their seconds/assistants. Now is a good time I would think, as second shooters grow to either start their own business, grow within the business, or realized how much work it was and are getting out of the game.

Im located in the LA area. Ya im thinking of talking to a few. Im actually getting married in 7 months so ive been visiting a few photographers. So im thinking of just asking, poping the question. Any advice? thanks alot.


Gripped 5D Mark II l 24-105 F/4 L l 70-200 F/4 L l Tokina 12-24 F4 l 50mm 1.8 l Sigma 600 Mirror l B+W KSM CPL l B+W 6stop ND filter l Hitech 0.6 GND l YN-468 Flash l Kenko Pro 300 1.4 TC l Induro Tripod, Vanguard 250 Ballhead.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
DavidAzilPhoto
Member
246 posts
Joined Jan 2010
Location: Texas
     
Feb 05, 2011 19:25 |  #14

thank you, found this thread from the one of mine you commented in great stuff!




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

6,069 views & 0 likes for this thread, 9 members have posted to it.
Tips to becoming a second shooter
FORUMS Photo Sharing & Discussion Weddings & Other Family Events 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Forums   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset   •  Home

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.58forum software
version 2.58 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Mihai Bucur
1033 guests, 179 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15,144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.