With speedlight mods and systems evolving why go strobe?

midnight_rider wrote in post #11334766
Personally I would just accept that a 7' modifier is not reasonable for my speedlight and go with with easier options.

so you answered your own question, right?

gonzogolf wrote in post #11334738
Yeah but you are talking about defocusing a focused lens on a $400 speedlight to do the same thing you can achieve with a $250 strobe that has twice the power. I get that there is an appeal to the strobist route, but its arguments like this that frustrate me. Pick the tool thats best for you, but dont oversell the capacity of your method. At some point there are better tools for the job at hand. I have a strobist setup, and alien bees with a vagabond and use them both as the situtation calls for it.

No need to be frustrated by a question or comment.

midnight_rider wrote in post #11334766
Personally I would just accept that a 7' modifier is not reasonable for my speedlight and go with with easier options.

Like forty-nine one-foot softboxes, each with a speedlight, configured to mimic a 7'x7' softbox?

hawk911 wrote in post #11334770
so you answered your own question, right?

I definitely see an appeal for both sides of the fence here.
See what has happened is that I am really liking using my CLS adn as much as I love it it can not fire or evaluate my AB light, So I am debating on adding more speedlights and not bothering with the bees to much. I love the portability of my speedlight and I would never really use more that 3 or 4 so they all fit in my camera bag. Strobes however....... not so much.

Seanzky wrote in post #11334795
Like forty-nine one-foot softboxes ,each with a speedlight, configured to mimic a 7'x7' softbox?

Thats what im talking about

gonzogolf wrote in post #11334738
Yeah but you are talking about defocusing a focused lens on a $400 speedlight to do the same thing you can achieve with a $250 strobe that has twice the power. I get that there is an appeal to the strobist route, but its arguments like this that frustrate me. Pick the tool thats best for you, but dont oversell the capacity of your method. At some point there are better tools for the job at hand. I have a strobist setup, and alien bees with a vagabond and use them both as the situtation calls for it.

agreed some of the rabid strobist wont listen to reason. The speedlight is king and they wont listen to anything against it.

the speedlight makes a good hair light.

3-4 will fit in your camera bag but you are going to have to carry modifiers and stands so that is really not a big deal.

midnight_rider wrote in post #11334830
I definitely see an appeal for both sides of the fence here.
See what has happened is that I am really liking using my CLS adn as much as I love it it can not fire or evaluate my AB light, So I am debating on adding more speedlights and not bothering with the bees to much. I love the portability of my speedlight and I would never really use more that 3 or 4 so they all fit in my camera bag. Strobes however....... not so much.

Ah hah! But that's where you're misinformed. Three of four speedlights does not equal "strobes". It equals "strobe". If you see what a Quadra is, I think you'll dismiss this whole notion.

Nikon loves Joe McNally and Joe McNally get all those free SBs so why not use them. You, on the other hand, will have to pay for each one. That's why it's appealing to Joe and shouldn't be as appealing to you to own that many speedlights. And for the record, Joe messes around with Elinchrom strobes, too. I don't know if he's hooked up with Elinchrom like Scott Kelby is, but if he isn't maybe that's why he doesn't use the Elinchrom strobes for workshops. I don't know. Also, Joe likes to use the CLS and TTL and the Nikon gels. To translate those to strobes would change a few things in his workflow that might not be something he welcomes for a mere workshop.

My very humble 2 cents...


I have a " mobile kit " with triggers and speedlites that fit with one body and two lenses in a bag that fits in the overhead bins of airplanes.Not a portable studio but a go anywhere do most kind of kit.


If studio stuff is what you need buy the real thing + reflectors and such and some portable power...some contracts require that kind of quality but i fill the 4 x 8 bed of my truck with all that stuff...i call that an expedition.


Some days when you want to shoot for fun or need to access some rocky ledge to shoot a guy who thinks he's spiderman...the speedlight route is the only available one.


No mechanic works with only a set of ratchets...sad to say but in the end you will end up buying both systems if you want to do it all.


Or...accept the limitations of one or the other

One clarification; The PocketWizard Control TL system does not bring TTL to Elinchrom and AB/Einstein strobes. What is does bring is an ability to control power remotely via the AC3 along with grouping via the group switch on the FlexTT5 or light specific adapter.
In addition, when auto is selected on the AC3, FEC compensation will dial the power up or down on the AB/Einstein or Elinchrom strobe.
The AC9 works with AB analog monolights. There is an announced module being developed for the Einstein. The PowerST4 supports Elinchrom RX strobes, including Ranger RX. It apparently does not support the D-Lite, BXRi or Quadra.

Strobes are proper tools for some jobs, Speedlites are proper tools for other jobs. There may be some overlap, but not much in my experience.

Workshop instructers like Joe are great guys, good photographers and vender pitchmen rolled into one. Anything they say about equipment has to be considered with the vender spokesman filter turned on.

sigma pi wrote in post #11334867
agreed some of the rabid strobist wont listen to reason. The speedlight is king and they wont listen to anything against it.

the speedlight makes a good hair light.

3-4 will fit in your camera bag but you are going to have to carry modifiers and stands so that is really not a big deal.

In all honesty looking over this thread i would easily say that it is the studio stobist that are the purist and it seems as if they will not accept that a speed light can be a very useful light source.

midnight_rider wrote in post #11335314
In all honesty looking over this thread i would easily say that it is the studio stobist that are the purist and it seems as if they will not accept that a speed light can be a very useful light source.

I have both, so I dunno.

I know the speedlights I have are great for on location stuff like a party, but if I am going to spend the time and set stuff up for a portrait I am not going to bother with them, out come the strobes.

Seanzky wrote in post #11334871
Ah hah! But that's where you're misinformed. Three of four speedlights does not equal "strobes". It equals "strobe". If you see what a Quadra is, I think you'll dismiss this whole notion.

Nikon loves Joe McNally and Joe McNally get all those free SBs so why not use them. You, on the other hand, will have to pay for each one. That's why it's appealing to Joe and shouldn't be as appealing to you to own that many speedlights. And for the record, Joe messes around with Elinchrom strobes, too. I don't know if he's hooked up with Elinchrom like Scott Kelby is, but if he isn't maybe that's why he doesn't use the Elinchrom strobes for workshops. I don't know. Also, Joe likes to use the CLS and TTL and the Nikon gels. To translate those to strobes would change a few things in his workflow that might not be something he welcomes for a mere workshop.

First let me say that I love a good level headed debate.

I think that in terms of power you are correct and that the amount of light generated by one speedlight can not equate that of one strobe.
How many stops difference do you think exist between the 2?
now with that in mind think of how far the ISO levels have come in cameras today. I can shoot and get a CLEAN shot with very little pp at 3200.
In terms of position and utilization the 4 speeedlights are more versatile than one strobe. you can now have a Key, fill. and background light without the use of reflectors and such.

sigma pi wrote in post #11335327
I have both, so I dunno.

I know the speedlights I have are great for on location stuff like a party, but if I am going to spend the time and set stuff up for a portrait I am not going to bother with them, out come the strobes.

True. I currently have a strobe and speedlight set.
I do not have many modifiers for the speedlight but I am thinking about ditching the AB and getting another SB-900. I never use my strobe for fast paced stuff anymore and it seems like I have been reaching for the speeedlight more and more.

midnight_rider wrote in post #11335338
First let me say that I love a good level headed debate.

I think that in terms of power you are correct and that the amount of light generated by one speedlight can not equate that of one strobe.
How many stops difference do you think exist between the 2?
now with that in mind think of how far the ISO levels have come in cameras today. I can shoot and get a CLEAN shot with very little pp at 3200.
In terms of position and utilization the 4 speeedlights are more versatile than one strobe. you can now have a Key, fill. and background light without the use of reflectors and such.

Of coarse 4>1

why is there only one strobe? The speedlights cost more so its not really a price thing that is limiting this. And I am scared of ISO, I'd rather not have to do PP to get it right, rather just get it right in camera

midnight_rider wrote in post #11335350
True. I currently have a strobe and speedlight set.
I do not have many modifiers for the speedlight but I am thinking about ditching the AB and getting another SB-900. I never use my strobe for fast paced stuff anymore and it seems like I have been reaching for the speeedlight more and more.

Yeah I am getting fat and old, so there is no high speed stuff for me anymore.

Modelling lights on studio strobes allow you to OPTIMIZE placement of the lights so that you best flatter a portrait sitter and do so quickly, because you preview the effect of lighting without taking a shot. And for product photography of shiny metal or glass, you can preview the placement of highlights which best suggest to the viewer the form or decorative details of the product, again without taking a shot.

To do so with speedlights means lots of shooting and chimping and adjusting, or settling lights for less than the best presentation.

As others have already stated, power and avaialbility of a wide variety of modifiers are other reasons for studio strobes. And some modifiers are not at all suitable for speedlights.

Seanzky wrote in post #11334871
Ah hah! But that's where you're misinformed. Three of four speedlights does not equal "strobes". It equals "strobe". If you see what a Quadra is, I think you'll dismiss this whole notion.

Nikon loves Joe McNally and Joe McNally get all those free SBs so why not use them. You, on the other hand, will have to pay for each one. That's why it's appealing to Joe and shouldn't be as appealing to you to own that many speedlights. And for the record, Joe messes around with Elinchrom strobes, too. I don't know if he's hooked up with Elinchrom like Scott Kelby is, but if he isn't maybe that's why he doesn't use the Elinchrom strobes for workshops. I don't know. Also, Joe likes to use the CLS and TTL and the Nikon gels. To translate those to strobes would change a few things in his workflow that might not be something he welcomes for a mere workshop.

sigma pi wrote in post #11335352
Of coarse 4>1

why is there only one strobe? The speedlights cost more so its not really a price thing that is limiting this. And I am scared of ISO, I'd rather not have to do PP to get it right, rather just get it right in camera

Yeah I am getting fat and old, so there is no high speed stuff for me anymore.

Read the quote above you,

Wilt wrote in post #11335354
Modelling lights on studio strobes allow you to OPTIMIZE placement of the lights so that you best flatter a portrait sitter and do so quickly, because you preview the effect of lighting without taking a shot. And for product photography of shiny metal or glass, you can preview the placement of highlights which best suggest to the viewer the form or decorative details of the product, again without taking a shot.

To do so with speedlights means lots of shooting and chimping and adjusting, or settling lights for less than the best presentation.

As others have already stated, power and avaialbility of a wide variety of modifiers are other reasons for studio strobes. And some modifiers are not at all suitable for speedlights.

Wilt as always you make good points.
I can hit the DOF preview button keep the speedlights lit. AL though it is not very efficient for the batteries and not continuous like the strobes.
My flash does have a " modeling mode " on it though. I have not played with that yet. maybe i will see what that does.