Another Arizona POTN get together (4)?

Hatch1921 wrote in post #12114057
Oh snap... wasn't being mean or anything.. it's just a cool shot. Wasn't thinking anything her being short or Asian... just saw really long legs.

Shooting the fisheye I was just trying to focus on teh shoes while keeping their heads 'normal'

nice shots sundevilstormin! I always like being taller
what did you use to have the flash off camera?

disneydork06 wrote in post #12114298
nice shots sundevilstormin! I always like being taller
what did you use to have the flash off camera?

Thanks Dis. Used all of our kit, excpet for the studio strobes

We started in Scorpion Gulch with reflector (effectively blinding them), then switched to Canon580 and Vivitar285, some tethered, some fired w/ PW's. I even got the wife to try some High-speed sync. We also used our hand-held video light (warmer) for some of the street shots downtown.

Got my apollo 28 in late last week, I didn't realize how huge this thing was until i got it lol
Here's a couple from the first use.

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/itsmejson/55716​81030/

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/itsmejson/55711​20437/

NOICE!

Last weeks thread really got me thinking. I was struck by the need to have some actual quantifiable data to assess what is happening in the portrait industry. So, doing some analysis, I found the following:

92% of the individuals who booked sessions (either for themselves or family) were female

100% of the sessions booked by males were for business purposes (headshots, promo work, etc)

100% of my clients who booked in the last 2 years who were on facebook

84% of those first time clients (last two years) who either liked or were friends with another "professional photographer" on facebook.

3 - # of people who who I have connected with solely through facebook who have ended up booking sessions.

66% of general friends (non-family, non-photographer, non-client friends), who have "professional portraits" in their facebook profile

92% of those friends (the 66%) with professional images look like momerazzi/home based businesses

What really strikes me about this data is what I can't see. For instance, if I'm facebook friends with a buddy from high-school, but not his wife, I can't see what is part of her profile. Since she is most likely to book the session, it would be most important to know if she likes, or is "friends' with another photog.

Worst of all, of those first time clients, 84% had relationships with another photog. That makes even repeat business harder.

What does it all mean? Don't really know. My gut instinct is that Facebook makes the whole "mommerazii" thing even worse. I think the problem I'm seeing is comprised of several things: Lower cost barriers on equipment, newer generations of moms who want take more of their own family pictures, ease of access to training materials, economic downturn, large scale market saturation via facebook makes it harder to build "significant relationships" instead of "buzz"

BrianAZ wrote in post #12116910
Last weeks thread really got me thinking. I was struck by the need to have some actual quantifiable data to assess what is happening in the portrait industry. So, doing some analysis, I found the following:

92% of the individuals who booked sessions (either for themselves or family) were female

100% of the sessions booked by males were for business purposes (headshots, promo work, etc)

100% of my clients who booked in the last 2 years who were on facebook

84% of those first time clients (last two years) who either liked or were friends with another "professional photographer" on facebook.

3 - # of people who who I have connected with solely through facebook who have ended up booking sessions.

66% of general friends (non-family, non-photographer, non-client friends), who have "professional portraits" in their facebook profile

92% of those friends (the 66%) with professional images look like momerazzi/home based businesses

What really strikes me about this data is what I can't see. For instance, if I'm facebook friends with a buddy from high-school, but not his wife, I can't see what is part of her profile. Since she is most likely to book the session, it would be most important to know if she likes, or is "friends' with another photog.

Worst of all, of those first time clients, 84% had relationships with another photog. That makes even repeat business harder.

What does it all mean? Don't really know. My gut instinct is that Facebook makes the whole "mommerazii" thing even worse. I think the problem I'm seeing is comprised of several things: Lower cost barriers on equipment, newer generations of moms who want take more of their own family pictures, ease of access to training materials, economic downturn, large scale market saturation via facebook makes it harder to build "significant relationships" instead of "buzz"

interesting analysis... so how many Friends do you have? I know that my wife posts some engagement and wedding shots or the clients on FB, resulting a few inquiries from friends and family - no firm print orders (also linked) of significance.

We did just book a wedding from a venue which we supplied with a free Venue Details blurb-book, so networking with Venues has paid off (again!)

174. The relatively small number made the manual process easier to endure.

Good to hear that your traditional relationship building has paid off. I think that the real connections are far more valuable than "buzz". The real question is how do you show yourself to be true, genuine, carring, and committed in the face of all that buzz and noise?

itsmejson wrote in post #12116606
Got my apollo 28 in late last week,

Congrats to you on the Apollo, looks nice.
And double congrats if that "other" announcement is yours too...

itsmejson wrote in post #12116606
@sundevil - I really like 7 & 8 4 is pretty funny, I have no idea where that wall is - where is it?

#4 is the grafitti wall behind Don Giannatti's (aka WizWow on Flickr, Lighting Essentials.com, Project52.org) studio at 5th Ave and Van Buren

@ Brian: 174 X $50K per = 7.8 Million so, where's the problem?

I've laid out on this one simply because I really don't have a dog in this fight. I may be your competition to some degree but not in the larger sense. I have a different set of windmills at which I'm tilting but it's always educational to see how others think.

I attended a networking meeting this morning (subbing for my insurance agent) and it was very interesting to see the "fire" in the eyes of independent business people in many different lines of work. They all truly believe that the current economic situation is a time when they can, in fact, prosper. One man's economic trash is another man's economic treasure I guess.

LOL, Jay. So, I need to focus my attention on making sure all my fb friends have an extra 50K to drop on photos, and my life will be on easy street?

In a technical sense, I agree that many of us are "competitors". However, I also think we server in a mutually beneificial dynamic as well. I've worked with people here as assistants, assisted others, learned new things, changed certain habits, so I'd say that I'm benefiting far more than anything.

I guess watching "American Beauty" made me jaded. "To be successfull, one must project the image of success", kinda bs is all around. When people get into "buzz", excitement, and "success", I'm always looking for what is the foundation for those reactions. I want to be sure it's real, and not just looking at someone who thinks image is everything. I've just seen so much that has been built on hopes/dreams/ambitions fail because there is nothing real behind it.

BrianAZ wrote in post #12117251
LOL, Jay. So, I need to focus my attention on making sure all my fb friends have an extra 50K to drop on photos, and my life will be on easy street?

In a technical sense, I agree that many of us are "competitors". However, I also think we server in a mutually beneificial dynamic as well. I've worked with people here as assistants, assisted others, learned new things, changed certain habits, so I'd say that I'm benefiting far more than anything.

I guess watching "American Beauty" made me jaded. "To be successfull, one must project the image of success", kinda bs is all around. When people get into "buzz", excitement, and "success", I'm always looking for what is the foundation for those reactions. I want to be sure it's real, and not just looking at someone who thinks image is everything. I've just seen so much that has been built on hopes/dreams/ambitions fail because there is nothing real behind it.

I think there's some truth in the American Beauty thing...

I know I got up a bit earlier to dress a little bit better for this meeting today. There were some "blue-collar" types in attendance but you could really tell the ones that are probably more comfortable in an office environment. The way they look you square in the eye and shake your hand when they introduce themselves. The way they're processing you in some strange Dale Carnegie way...

The whole focus of this group is to use each other as an extended sales force and to give and get referrals for business. I find it oddly intriguing even if I don't necessarily share the "It's Good To Be Alive and In Business" jingoism that seemed to permeate the room. Some were just a little bit too "Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet you..." if you know what I mean.

On the other hand, my CPA and my Insurance Agent are both members and I met the insurance through the accountant so I guess it works!

BrianAZ wrote in post #12117063
174. The relatively small number made the manual process easier to endure.

Good to hear that your traditional relationship building has paid off. I think that the real connections are far more valuable than "buzz". The real question is how do you show yourself to be true, genuine, carring, and committed in the face of all that buzz and noise?

Good thought - In thinking about the FB 'buzz' and your analysis

'Women book family portraits" - that is where many Momerazzi are cornering the local market - their own personal 'sphere of influence' among friends and family. My cousin's wife has 'cornered' the family portrait market in our area (San Tan Valley), is a prolific FB-er (~1000 Friends), tagging herself and her clients on every shot. We talked near the end of last year and her Nov-Dec was booked almost solid with Holiday portrait sessions... and she is 'budget'. When she commented about how overworked she was at the time I mentioned that it was time to raise prices, to which she responded "but I would lose all of my business" So even though those Mom's are "Friends", even price would have them look elsewhere.

She is in the $200-$400 range depending on group size, location, etc and gives them the images to print (up to 8x10). She shot ~120 sessions 2010 - 2011 YTD: that’s $24,000-$48,000 estimated session gross sales... looks to be on-par with the BLS statistics

As we've discussed, it's easy to be 'busy' and think that you are making money, but when she commented that she is processing at 3am, maybe she's not capturing her own time as a part of COGS.
- lets assume 3 hours for the session, travel to and from and shooting
- lets assume another 8 hours processing, burning, delivering, posting, tagging)
=11 hours per session
that’s 18.00 - 36.00 gross per hour

And in other news...
At WPPI my wife showed her recent bridal boudoir to a few other photog friends. One made a good observation - female MODELS (think MM) probably feel more comfortable with MALE photogs, but female CLIENTS feel more comfortable with FEMALE photogs. That observation holds true for the model and client boudoir shoots we've done - sorry Hatch

sundevilstormin wrote in post #12117366
Good thought - In thinking about the FB 'buzz' and your analysis

'Women book family portraits" - that is where many Momerazzi are cornering the local market - their own personal 'sphere of influence' among friends and family. My cousin's wife has 'cornered' the family portrait market in our area (San Tan Valley), is a prolific FB-er (~1000 Friends), tagging herself and her clients on every shot. We talked near the end of last year and her Nov-Dec was booked almost solid with Holiday portrait sessions... and she is 'budget'. When she commented about how overworked she was at the time I mentioned that it was time to raise prices, to which she responded "but I would lose all of my business" So even though those Mom's are "Friends", even price would have them look elsewhere.

She is in the $200-$400 range depending on group size, location, etc and gives them the images to print (up to 8x10). She shot ~120 sessions 2010 - 2011 YTD: that’s $24,000-$48,000 estimated session gross sales... looks to be on-par with the BLS statistics

As we've discussed, it's easy to be 'busy' and think that you are making money, but when she commented that she is processing at 3am, maybe she's not capturing her own time as a part of COGS.
- lets assume 3 hours for the session, travel to and from and shooting
- lets assume another 8 hours processing, burning, delivering, posting, tagging)
=11 hours per session
that’s 18.00 - 36.00 gross per hour

And in other news...
At WPPI my wife showed her recent bridal boudoir to a few other photog friends. One made a good observation - female MODELS (think MM) probably feel more comfortable with MALE photogs, but female CLIENTS feel more comfortable with FEMALE photogs. That observation holds true for the model and client boudoir shoots we've done - sorry Hatch

If she is having the clients print all the images, it makes sense to lower her session fees. Her only recourse, however, is to make up the difference on volume.

I've thought long and hard about the way clients look at male photogs. As a father, I would be much more comfortable with a woman taking my newborn's pics than a guy. Even if the guy was a father, and the woman was childless. It just seems more natural. I could only imagine how women, who are almost the exclusive buyers of photography, must feel.

On a purely emotional instinct, photography, feels like one of those creative, nurturing, things that makes me think women have the upper hand outside of a more traditional studio setting.

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #12117310
I think there's some truth in the American Beauty thing...

I know I got up a bit earlier to dress a little bit better for this meeting today. There were some "blue-collar" types in attendance but you could really tell the ones that are probably more comfortable in an office environment. The way they look you square in the eye and shake your hand when they introduce themselves. The way they're processing you in some strange Dale Carnegie way...

The whole focus of this group is to use each other as an extended sales force and to give and get referrals for business. I find it oddly intriguing even if I don't necessarily share the "It's Good To Be Alive and In Business" jingoism that seemed to permeate the room. Some were just a little bit too "Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet you..." if you know what I mean.

On the other hand, my CPA and my Insurance Agent are both members and I met the insurance through the accountant so I guess it works!

There is some truth to it, if you client is gullible and naive.

I've tried it. My problem is that if I don't feel it honestly, and genuinely, it shows. Clients can see it. It's why I try to build that "true" connection with my customers.

I'm around those sales guys all the time. My employer basically does financial wealth management. We've seen the failure of pomp and flair without substance, and now focus on building lasting and deep relationships.

Obviously, you don't want to give off the "hey you could do worse" kinda vibe to your potential customers. But the fake smiling gets old really fast. Clients start to think that you believe they are idiots, because it just isn't natural to act like that.

BTW, Jay, I am damn glad to meet you.