Basketball Tournament Opportunity... help

Okay...I know that this is a HUGE topic with many different sub-topics to cover. So let your expertise lead you to share what you know.

I've been presented with an opportunity to shoot a very large nationally recognized AAU tournament with some 400+ teams, from 9 & under to 17 & under age divisions. The reason that I am writing this post is that I'm somewhat overwhelmed. A tournament committee member has asked me to present him with a sort of "business plan" that we can then negotiate the terms into a contract... in other words, do I want to work for a certain fee and then provide the images to the tournament for their promotional use...(they have at least one player on each current NBA team roster that has played in their tournament in the past few years) or a fee plus image price... they don't want to manage the re-sell of the image to the parents/teams/coaches/​players but would like to have that type of service available to further enhance their tournament experience. I won't be able to setup for "immediate" purchase, so it will have to be through an online photocart of some sort, possibly sharing the proceeds with the tournament. Additionally they might want to "sell" my time, or promote my services so that a team could hire me during the tournament to shoot their game for a fee that included x-number of digital images. Another option might be that I would shoot the tournament for a minimal fee and then I would retain all proceeds from online sales.

It just seems like there a myriad of options for the business arrangements... what do you do? What have you tried that didn't work??

My background is mainly in session-based event photography and family portraits... I am fairly confident that I can capture the images that both the tournament committee and parents will want... but I would love any adivce on equipment and techniques that you would like to share... I've shot sports events in the past, but mainly as a way to work on my images, as I LOVE sports! I have a few months to prepare, but I don't want to procrastinate, so let's get started with the dialogue...


Thanks in advance for your thoughtful opinions and advice!

I do a few events like this every year and you can really go about it a few different ways.

A) You can shoot just for the company putting it on, shooting who and where they want and be done with it. This would be probably the easiest option but also least paying. In this type of situation they usually give you a list of certain players/teams to concentrate on. The more rights they want the more they pay, you should always try to keep your rights as much as humanly possible. ALL images I take are mine, even if shooting for another client I still retain all rights for stock sales.

B) You can shoot and try to sell prints, but you have to realize 400 teams is insane and you'd probably need help big time (other photographers). Then of course you need to figure out a day fee to pay them, what rights they keep and what ones you get, etc. Find photographers who can capture in low light without strobes as no way to set them up with this many games going on. My assumption is a lot of gyms are going at the same time spread out all over the placed. In that case you need to find the most centralized location to get as many teams as possible.

C) You can shoot for the teams directly, but who is going to approach the coaches for you? Is it the organizers or do you have to do it yourself? This is kind of an un-explored region for me but actually have been talking with one company about it for some tournaments as the print sales just didn't do too well.

I do a combination of A & B (and as said may ad C).

At our tournaments.

- They pay me x-amount for the rights to use the images afterwards. This includes game images and really anything else they need taken specifically. The rights are specifically that they can use them for internal use only. They are not allowed to send them to third parties (parents, magazines, newspapers, etc). If they want that right the price goes up. ALL sales of prints and third party outlets go to me. SO if a magazine comes calling for an image of the next NBA star they have to forward my info to the magazine or forward me the email so I can handle it directly. It's secondary sales and they matter!

- I set up a site for players and their parents to buy images - ranges from standard prints to those gifts like magnets, key chains and so forth. The company gets 0% from these sales but does help me promote the site. Tournaments like this are tough because you have a coach in between. The organization is emailing the coach and relying on them to hand out the information for you. DOES NOT ALWAYS WORK! Best to have posters/flyers/cards all over the place. Giving them a cut is usually used as a fundraiser or for helping, you have to think of that when setting prices. That loss is coming from somewhere and your bottom line needs to be whatever you set it. IF they asked me for a cut I'd have to tell them the parents are paying more - one time someone asked they immediately said bad idea to raise it on the parents and dropped it.

However, I must say my tournaments are easier. The biggest one is 30 baseball teams with a showcase game in there to. I end up getting all 30 teams and that game, about 400 kids maybe, 400 b-ball teams we're talking at least 3,000 kids. It's impossible to get everyone, and I mean impossible, unless you have people helping you out - even then you will miss guys.

Option C is the tricky one. If you shoot for the teams they are getting x-amount of images per game, or they hire you outright for the game. What about all the times nobody hired you? What do you do in that time frame if only a few hired and it's not much cash...my guess would be have a booth and take player requests. A parent comes over and pays x-amount for you to go concentrate a bit on their kid, they come back to a viewing station and pick, or they get a credit for online they can use after the event. You also have to consider how much per game.

Any way you look at it I'd be concerned about the results. Make sure it's something you are 100% confident in you can do and not "fairly". Big events call for top quality images, you can do well with them. I know one guy who takes home on average of 10K per event because he knows what he's doing and produces quality they're not getting on an average basis. These type teams (travel) have photographers at almost every tournament, if this is the biggest, best, etc. then it's special to them - they want the best results!

Equipment - fast primes, LOTS of memory cards, body that is spectacular at low light...immediately would say a 70-200 2.8 and Mark IV, 85 as well, that all depends on where you'll be shooting and nobody can guess how good the light is. A computer station setup with an external drive to back them up immediately after download - of course either guarded or in an area people can't get to.

Thanks MJ... that is alot of info to digest. Do you have a suggestion for an online photocart ? I believe that for this year's tournament I will likely go wtih a mixture of A&B... allowing the tournament to do some of the promotion of the online photocart via my site, but also coming prepped with printed flyers/cards directing the parents to the site. when you say they pay you x-amount for the rights to images... is that a per day amount, per athlete, per image... and what do you mean by internal use only.. can they use them for promotional purposes like running ads, and using them in their website design...
When it comes to 3rd parties that want to use the image.. how do you price that? Do they usually approach you with an amount that they will pay?

Also, on the topic of insurance.. is there someone that specializes in that type of insuarance??? Is is pricey?

I know, I know.. questions.

Do you have a suggestion for an online photocart ?

I use Exposure Manager right now, but am actually switching to PhotoCart. Exposure Manager I would suggest over any other service out there, it takes less percentage wise and costs less than other places annually. If you wanted to do it all in house then the program called PhotoCart is the best option. It's a one time fee, you have to pay hosting though and everything needing a good amount of space.

prepped with printed flyers/cards directing the parents to the site.

Remember you're going to be shooting almost non-stop, stopping to hand out cards is tough. So have posters/flyers available everywhere and anywhere. Concession stands, at the front gate where they're paying to get in (if the are). If there's an announcement system they should be putting it over that to for all to hear.

when you say they pay you x-amount for the rights to images... is that a per day amount, per athlete, per image...

They pay me a fee that we negotiated that they get the images from the event. It's a flat amount, not per day or image. They get a CD of everything I kept basically, that I didn't delete (out of focus, bad images, etc).

and what do you mean by internal use only.. can they use them for promotional purposes like running ads, and using them in their website design...

That's internal use - that's all THEIR company directed projects. Internal use means they can use it for their projects, their promotions, their website, their media guides, their presentations, etc. It means they can not send it to other companies though, like newspapers, sponsors can't use the images - so say Nike sponsors the event if they want to use images they should be paying you as well. If the organization wants those rights to give them to third parties they pay for those rights, in other words increase your pay.

When it comes to 3rd parties that want to use the image.. how do you price that? Do they usually approach you with an amount that they will pay?

They usually approach with a few different strategies. Some will say they have no budget, and I tell them tough luck. They usually come back with a figure and you negotiate just like you would any other deal. Some will try to undercut you sending a lowball offer, some offer more than you think they would. There's pricing systems out there you can use like photoquote that tells you about where to start, or the range.

Also, on the topic of insurance.. is there someone that specializes in that type of insuarance??? Is is pricey?

There's a ton of places that can do it, actually pretty much anywhere. If you get business insurance for the year it's ranging in the $850 to over a thousand depending on several factors. I know some have mentioned cheaper on this board but I'd look at what kind of liability, what is the replacement policy for broken/stolen equipment, etc.

..questions..

Least you're asking them now and not posting this on Monday saying "I have a tournament this weekend and....." This profession is not as easy as most think it is, I can guarantee you if we did a poll of members on this board who say they are running a business a vast majority are not paying taxes, don't have insurance, are not following local business laws of having studios in house, etc. etc. etc. Better to ask ahead of doing, prepare, have all the bases covered, etc.