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Thread started 16 Dec 2010 (Thursday) 19:40
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slide and negative copying

 
Skaperen
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Location: Wheeling, WV, USA
     
Dec 16, 2010 19:40 |  #1

I am looking for an attachment that can be used with the EF-S 60mm f/2.8 macro lens to hold slides and negatives for copying. It should not have any optics, or at least still work completely and correctly when any optics are removed (must be removable by design, not by alteration).


7D, 450D, 18-135/3.5-5.6, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 60/2.8 macro
Wish List: 5DsR, 16-35/2.8L,100/2.8L macro, 135/2L, LC-E6E

  
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Wilt
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Dec 16, 2010 20:55 |  #2

Most slide copying devices historically assume you are copying a 24mm x 36mm transparency 1:1 onto a 24mm x 36mm frame size camera. The problem is that you are trying to copy a 24x36mm transparency onto about 15mm x 22mm, or about 62.5% of lifesize. So any adapter needs to have been designed specifically for a format change from 135 to ASP-C in the copying process! Such a device would not work correctly in a Nikon, nor would one for the Nikon work on the Canon, since the copying formats are not identically sized (1.6x vs. 1.5x crop factors).


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speters2
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Dec 17, 2010 03:09 as a reply to  @ Wilt's post |  #3

You be better of with a scanner for slides/negatives as the quality of the resulte will be so much higher.




  
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Skaperen
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Dec 17, 2010 15:07 |  #4

Wilt wrote in post #11466309 (external link)
Most slide copying devices historically assume you are copying a 24mm x 36mm transparency 1:1 onto a 24mm x 36mm frame size camera. The problem is that you are trying to copy a 24x36mm transparency onto about 15mm x 22mm, or about 62.5% of lifesize. So any adapter needs to have been designed specifically for a format change from 135 to ASP-C in the copying process! Such a device would not work correctly in a Nikon, nor would one for the Nikon work on the Canon, since the copying formats are not identically sized (1.6x vs. 1.5x crop factors).

Right. It would need to focus to 1.6:1 instead of 1:1, well within the range of the EF-S 60mm f/2.8, which can do 1:1. The copying device just needs to be able to position the slide/negative at the appropriate distance, which is about 1.6x the distance. If the copying device can't make it that far, maybe a few filter adapter rings can stretch it the approximate 36mm more it needs (minus how much of that the copying device actually can do). A copying device intended for a 100mm lens in full format would have these distances.


7D, 450D, 18-135/3.5-5.6, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 60/2.8 macro
Wish List: 5DsR, 16-35/2.8L,100/2.8L macro, 135/2L, LC-E6E

  
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Skaperen
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Dec 17, 2010 15:10 |  #5

speters2 wrote in post #11467581 (external link)
You be better of with a scanner for slides/negatives as the quality of the resulte will be so much higher.

I've read that the quality of the slide/negative scanners is actually lower. That, and they are more trouble getting files transferred (because they often require special software, don't have a memory card slot, and/or don't use standard USB hard drive emulation). Do you know of such a slide scanner that supports 15 to 18 megapixels, 14 bit depth, exposure bracketing, etc?


7D, 450D, 18-135/3.5-5.6, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 60/2.8 macro
Wish List: 5DsR, 16-35/2.8L,100/2.8L macro, 135/2L, LC-E6E

  
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crn3371
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Dec 17, 2010 15:46 |  #6

I suggest having a look here for various scanner reviews. http://www.filmscanner​.info …mscannerTestber​ichte.html (external link)
And here for basic scanning tips. http://scantips.com/ (external link)
I would think something like the Epson v600 or Canoscan 9000 would do the job. Scanning specs aren't about megapixels, but rather dpi. Never heard of exposure bracketing being used in scanning. Most decent scanning software allows you to make exposure corrections at time of capture. I think all modern scanners are plug n play via usb.




  
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Skaperen
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Dec 18, 2010 08:59 as a reply to  @ crn3371's post |  #7

Those appears to be flatbed scanners with transparency adapters. One problem I had with one of those years ago was the inconsistency of pixel geometry. This is due to mechanical movement. You can see this effect by repeating the scan and seeing that the pixels do not line up from scan to scan. This is one big reason I'm going to camera based capture.

When I was referring to slide/negative scanners, I was referring to the ones that don't have the moving scan sensor.

Exposure bracketing acquires more information about the light curve of the subject making it easier to correct the curve without losing as much light level quanta (e.g. bit depth). Repeating the shots at the same light level gives only minimal improvement. Repeating the shots at different light levels helps recover some information you can't see so easily in the extremes of dye levels in the film, because of the non-linear curve of the developed dye. Then when you level out the ends of the curve, you don't end up with contouring. BTW, this is best done using RAW mode.

It looks like from the reviews of the scanners you suggested, the effective ppi is 1700 for the Canon and 1560 for the Epson. This is less, almost half, what can be done with a digital camera.


7D, 450D, 18-135/3.5-5.6, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 60/2.8 macro
Wish List: 5DsR, 16-35/2.8L,100/2.8L macro, 135/2L, LC-E6E

  
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Skaperen
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Dec 18, 2010 12:02 as a reply to  @ Skaperen's post |  #8

Back when I had a Nikon system for film (which I still have most of), I had a bellows, slide adapter, reversing adapter, and used the 55mm f/2.8 macro forward, and the 20mm f/2.8 wide angle backwards, to get some extreme macro shots (that needed a LOT of light). Slide duplication worked very well, depending on the film used. For B&W I was able to make slides from negs with fairly good results after finding the right film and developer (Tech Pan with a contrast compensation developer to make slides from negs made from Tri-X).

The bellows eventually crumbled and I didn't replace it at the time. It was discarded when I last moved. I still have the lenses (and the FM-2 and FE-2 I used them on). Conditions are unknown. I cannot find the reversing adapter or the slide adapter. I do have some extension tubes for Nikon mount.

I've decided to make the switch to Canon for digital, starting with a 450D. I'm looking at either the 7D or 5D to get by spring. I'm ordering the 60mm macro for now, and the 100mm macro L version next (even if I get the 7D, but a must for the 5D since the 60mm is probably locked out).

I have thousands of slides and negs from film days.


7D, 450D, 18-135/3.5-5.6, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 60/2.8 macro
Wish List: 5DsR, 16-35/2.8L,100/2.8L macro, 135/2L, LC-E6E

  
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Chris ­ Nicola
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Jun 05, 2012 11:27 as a reply to  @ Skaperen's post |  #9

Yes you can use various optical slide copiers with a crop frame camera and the the Canon 60mm EFS. One is the Optika slide copier. Another is the Bower Slide copier. These work with a full frame focal length of about 110mm or a crop frame focal length lens of about 60 -65mm. Other copiers may work as well. They can screw on to the front of a 52mm thread and both have a 10 dioptre lens inside that can easily be removed. Using the 60mm EFS lens with the internal copier lens in place there will be a thin border around the slide frame you can crop in post production. Without the internal lens and using the 60mm the view is slightly within the slide frame. To overcome this, you can make the slide copier slightly longer by about 7mm by using two stepping rings screwed back to back with the 52mm threads exposed on the front and back. You can do this using a 52 to 58 mm and a 58 to 52 stepping ring. I have had good results with the Opteka copier shooting a white card using the small on board camera flash about 30 to 45 cm away. You will need to do some tests. The front of the Opteka copier can be rotated but cannot be moved up or down. I am not sure but I think the Bower copier can be adjusted horizontally and vertically which would be an advantage. It is also possible to obtain a special negative/unmounted slide attachment if you can find one. Otherwise you could make your own improvisation. I hope this helps.

Kind Regards

Chris

OpteKa Slide Copier:
http://www.amazon.co.u​k …lide+Copier+for​+Canon+EOS (external link)+

Bower Slide Copier:
http://www.shopping.co​m …-103332995-109492698?sb=1 (external link)

Negative Carrier Attachment (if you can find a place to buy one)
http://specialtyphotog​raphic.stores.yahoo.ne​t/slfinecaboun.html (external link)


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slide and negative copying
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