Pricing question

This is not really a relevant question, but how many files would be on the disk as described by your contract? What would be the price per file on that disc?

I would agree with Svetlana: Tell her that for multiple images, the whole disc is a standard product and the best deal. She's asking for a custom product, which cannot be a cheap...because it would be custom.

Yes, the $125 is definitely a deal. This is not Sears and she's handing you a coupon.
My husband and I go back and forth all the time about this. $125 is super fair.

Hate it when clients change their mind after the contract has been signed. Give her a 5x7 print for free so she can compare with $0.19 cents from Walmart or Walgreens.

RDKirk wrote in post #11492180
This is not really a relevant question, but how many files would be on the disk as described by your contract? What would be the price per file on that disc?

I would agree with Svetlana: Tell her that for multiple images, the whole disc is a standard product and the best deal. She's asking for a custom product, which cannot be a cheap...because it would be custom.

Well, I put up 61 photos as proofs. They are pretty much ready to go, I only do minor editing. So thats $1830 worth of prints for $125 bucks. About a 93% discount. haha. Kinda embarrassed at how much i'm discounting the entire disc

jra wrote in post #11492026
I'd stick to the $125.
Off topic....we have the same name. As I was looking at your pics and I was thinking..."how on earth is my name on those photos????" Hopefully you're a good guy....don't need anyone out there ruining my name

Crazy we have the same name. It's actually my middle name, but my last name was too hard to spell when spoken to be my business name.

Ahtz wrote in post #11492610
Well, I put up 61 photos as proofs. They are pretty much ready to go, I only do minor editing.

So, the point here is that your $125 disc is your standard product, ready to go. She wants you to go back and create a new custom product. Tell her it can't be the same sweet deal if you have to go back and locate the images and create an entirely new disc. Your time costs money.

email sent:

Ahtz wrote in post #11492610
Well, I put up 61 photos as proofs. They are pretty much ready to go, I only do minor editing. So thats $1830 worth of prints for $125 bucks. About a 93% discount. haha. Kinda embarrassed at how much i'm discounting the entire disc

Where did you get your rates for above?
I looked on your site, the way it's priced out, 6 hours and 75 HRI's would only be $600.00

You asked so here it comes!

Let's say an 8x10 cost you $3°° to print.
Ok now your cost for a print ?

I don't really want to know what you charge, it's just a way to show you

Ok so now you know the cost of print.

Print or CD you know wha the cost is as you PP each file before you either set it to print or burn it to cd.

Just at cost of printing alone say at $3.00 - 61 x $3.00 = $183.00 - you already lost $58.00
Well not anything, after all you didn't have them printed.
- You still PP each and every file.
Let say you sell an 8 x 10 for $10.00 ( no sitting fee, that dirt ass cheap )
$610.00 ow how much did you lose, ok take the $3.00 each out for print cost. You just kissed $427.00 in the arse and said please and thank you to do it.

Ok $7.00 a file. 25 x $7.00 = $175.00 you 2 hour session fee was $25.00
- now here's the lost part, they can now print as much as they want from that CD anytime they want.
-Scary part, ( during a shot, you are the one in charge and direction ) if they get hurt from a trip or what not and it goes to court, who's favor do you think will be ruled for?
Yours the business person or there's the customer?
------- at your rates if you pay for business insurance you already in the red.

It's your business (well part-time) and at those prices it will always be part time.

You have a regular job, which is good because you are using money from that job to buy things for you clients.
- your goin there was on your day job dime. Car payments, insurance, gas, wear and tear....
Your gear is going to wear out and you will have to use money from your day job to buy more, because at your rates, you won't be able to afford it from your part time business.

If your married and have kids, at the end of the year, time spent doing your part time business, is not going to justify the lack of income from said part time business.
- Time you add it all up with bargain rates, you will be lucky to break even and not have a lose.

You asked what everyone else thought, because you want to move forward with your business.
Unfortunatly you have the shifter cable locked in reverse.

You asked for gloves off, you got it.

Therein lies your first mistake, when you go in low you are sure to attract a certain type of customer base, the Walmarters so to speak. The problem is they expect a discount on everything and when push comes to shove are the firs tones who fail to pay.

Wayne

I totally appreciate everything you are saying and agree with it all. Having said that, How do I come out of the gates charging say $350 for a session and then charge $20 or $30 for each 8x10 print. I don't have a client base. I don't have referalls coming in. I don't know how to get clients basically. The only way I know how to do it is to charge a price that people are willing to pay right now and after I build some momentum then raise rates over time.

Back to all of your examples of how much money i'm leaving on the table. I agree with all of that also... but one thing that really bothers me about this argument, which is given SO many times on this site, is that your work is only worth what people are willing to spend for it. Its not worth what it costs you to do business. Hopefully what your work is worth is more than your cost of doing business. I know that this couple would not have even considered me if my costs were as high as your math came to.

I think you need to do the math to figure out what you need to charge to pay for the cost of running a business but after you do that math, you better hope its something people are willing to pay.

For example.. if I am a really poor, inefficient businessman and figure it costs me $2000 per family shoot to stay ahead of the game, and then charge that rate, I won't get any business because my work is not worth that. But thats what it costs to run my business you say?

Its funny I say all this while knowing that my rates are lower than it would cost to sustain even my part time business. I've struggled to even get someone to want a photo shoot at my "standard" $200 rate yet alone a "Christmas Card Special" of $25.

Time for me to start reading about advertising I guess....... Thanks for all the advice and input.

I think these are great photos and worth the price you are offering for them. Your email was nicely stated and I hope you make some money off of this shoot because you deserve it.

Off topic - I noticed you have a T1i (which I also have) and wondering which lens you used and what settings, specifically aperture? I really like the clarity of your photos!

Ahtz wrote in post #11494351
I totally appreciate everything you are saying and agree with it all. Having said that, How do I come out of the gates charging say $350 for a session and then charge $20 or $30 for each 8x10 print. I don't have a client base. I don't have referalls coming in. I don't know how to get clients basically. The only way I know how to do it is to charge a price that people are willing to pay right now and after I build some momentum then raise rates over time.

Back to all of your examples of how much money i'm leaving on the table. I agree with all of that also... but one thing that really bothers me about this argument, which is given SO many times on this site, is that your work is only worth what people are willing to spend for it. Its not worth what it costs you to do business. Hopefully what your work is worth is more than your cost of doing business. I know that this couple would not have even considered me if my costs were as high as your math came to.

I think you need to do the math to figure out what you need to charge to pay for the cost of running a business but after you do that math, you better hope its something people are willing to pay.

For example.. if I am a really poor, inefficient businessman and figure it costs me $2000 per family shoot to stay ahead of the game, and then charge that rate, I won't get any business because my work is not worth that. But thats what it costs to run my business you say?

Its funny I say all this while knowing that my rates are lower than it would cost to sustain even my part time business. I've struggled to even get someone to want a photo shoot at my "standard" $200 rate yet alone a "Christmas Card Special" of $25.

Time for me to start reading about advertising I guess....... Thanks for all the advice and input.

You're arguing that it's better to get a customer who costs you money out of your day job's earnings than to not get that same customer which would cost you zero money out of your day job's earnings.

Personally, I'd rather sit on my rear end and watch a movie at home than go out and operate in the red.

"I've been advised by my financial adviser to maintain firm pricing structures, especially when dealing with promotional offers. However, returning clients that book future shoots are eligible for some small additional discounts based on repeat business."

Your quote to the effect that you're just started what.... selling...photos? That's a *Business*, threat it like one.

Finally, if you don't stand up for the value of your work, no one else will either.

And yes, they're already getting a good deal based on the quality of your photos. Stand tall, stand firm.

I guess all i'm saying is that businesses have start up costs. When I first got my camera and had never taken a portrait before I couldn't go around charging what the pro who has been photographing with 20 years of experience and quality to back it. Even if I buy all the same gear as the pro and have all the same overhead costs. My business might cost just as much as his but my product is not as good and therefore is not valued as much. Why would anyone want to buy from me if they can get a much better product from someone else who charges the same.

I think we're all saying the same thing pretty much. I'm just trying to break the link between charge what it cost to run the business. Instead, charge what the product is worth and people are willing to spend. Same goes on the other side of it. If someone is willing to spend $1000 for your product but you determine you only need to sell it for $500 to be a good business... you'd still sell it for $1000 right?

The way i've justified to myself my prices is that i'm still in the startup cost phase of things and I have to expect that there is an element of investment that has to go into a business. Yes, that money is coming from my day job. I would love to be able to charge more and to charge what my product is worth. If it is worth more than i'm charging i'd love to charge appropriately. My struggle is, how in the heck do I get customers? I need to go take a class on advertising for small businesses or something.

Then don't run around trying to be a business when you first get a camera. Get good at it via family first.