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Thread started 21 Dec 2010 (Tuesday) 23:29
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Shooting for free makes you evil...

 
alabama1980
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Dec 21, 2010 23:29 |  #1

http://rising.blacksta​r.com/photographers-excuses.html (external link)

I was kind of blown away by this guys blog post demonizing doing free/cheap work when starting out, but since I have done most of the points listed I may be biased.

Love to hear other peoples thoughts on his thoughts. I would have found it more intuitive if he actually offered some alternatives to his points. The link above is the actual blog post. Some of the comments are a decent read as well.

Ninety percent of small businesses fail within the first two years. With few exceptions, working for free is the fastest way for freelance photographers to become part of this 90 percent.
Here are a few excuses I’ve heard for working for free, along with my responses:


  1. I’m trying to get into concert photography, so when bands have called to ask about pricing, I’ve told them, “It’s on me.” It’s a great way for me to break into that market.
    It’s a great way to break into that market known as “free.” How many times do you think musicians have screwed themselves over and given away the farm to music labels? Too many to count. Don’t make the same mistake.

  2. I just did a free shoot for a young actress trying to make ends meet, like many starving artists. It helped her and was an opportunity for me to practice my lighting techniques.
    Romanticizing being a “starving artist” isn’t really a good thing. It’s nice when you’re sipping a chai tea latte with your beret in the local java house listening to beatniks recite their slam poetry, but other than that, it’s mostly a good way to remain starving. Doing a trade-for-prints/trade-for-CD deal is for C-grade models and photographers who almost never become pros. And while you may think that it helps you with your lighting techniques, it doesn’t help you grow in the area that matters most — the confidence to know that your work has value.

  3. I offered to shoot free family photos for all my neighbors for their holiday cards. It’s a good way to promote my business.
    It’s nice to be a good neighbor. Then again, you might soon be getting lots of invitations to weddings and Bar Mitzvahs, with the suggestion: “Hey, why don’t you bring your camera? We’d love to have some photos, and you would really be saving us some money.” So now, you’re an even better neighbor than you intended to be — and you’ve knocked some local wedding photographer out of a paying gig. Or, if you respond with, “Oh, those holiday photos were a one-time thing; I charge to shoot events,” you’ll probably get something like this: “Come on, neighbor, you’re going to be there anyway!”

  4. I got some valuable event-photography experience shooting one of my company’s employee celebrations for free. I got to shoot an event for a Fortune 500 corporation, and my pictures received excellent exposure on the company Web site, with over 25,000 hits. I was even given a free photo printer for my effort.
    A free photo printer? You mean one of the dozen printers your company got for free when they ordered the last batch of CPU’s from Dell or HP? As someone who has shot for over half of the Fortune 500, I can tell you that I’ve earned $1,000 or more per assignment shooting company picnics, holiday parties, and so forth. It’s not glamourous, but it helps pay the bills. That is, unless you have someone willing to do it for a free printer. By the way, who insured your personal gear against spilled sodas or any other accidents? Let me guess: no one.

  5. Every photography job I’ve ever gotten has been through word of mouth — often because I did something for free first.
    Right, word of mouth. As in, “Hey, I know this photographer who will shoot for free…” Congratulations! You’ve just become known all over town as the guy who doesn’t expect to be paid for his work. Maybe if you’re lucky, you’ll even get a client who offers to buy you lunch.

  6. I’ve been doing some free portraits of friends for fun, to use as their Facebook profile photos. When people see my pictures on Facebook, I’ll expand my network and it can lead to jobs.
    No, it will lead to more requests to take pictures “for fun” — from friends, then friends of friends, then people who just don’t want to pay to have their portraits taken. And you’ll be making lots of new friends among the professional portrait photographers whose livelihoods you are damaging. Happy networking!

  7. I like my day job in IT, but at night I am passionate about photography. I don’t mind self-funding my work because it gives me more creative freedom.
    Guess what, IT guy? When India’s night work takes over your day job, don’t call me crying about it. Also, don’t bother trying to make a living from your “passion,” because you’re already doing all you can to undermine your chances — as well as everyone else’s.

  8. I’m a young amateur photographer, close to graduating from college, so I’m focusing on building a portfolio I can be proud of. Money? Later.
    Excellent. One more student photographer who doesn’t care about money. I predict that when Sallie Mae comes a callin’ for payback on those loans that funded your education, money will become much more important to you. And I assume you’ll have things like rent, food and clothing to worry about, too. Unless Mommy and Daddy are still paying for everything — which is really nothing for you to be bragging about.

  9. I did some high-profile assignments for free, and now I’m published in major magazines with a photo credit.
    “Will work for photo credit” is one of the more asinine mentalities among photographers today. You’re helping no one, including yourself. All you’re doing is killing editorial opportunities for others.

  10. I recently graduated from photography school and have been shooting like crazy, mostly for free. I’ve been getting very good experience. I’m also making contacts, and once the economy improves, I’ll be in a much better place than had I sat around waiting for paid assignments.
    That’s some photography school — where you didn’t get experience! Your problem is that you just want to shoot pictures rather than earn assignments. You don’t “sit around waiting” for work; you market yourself to people who are willing to pay for your services. Those contacts you’re making are worth about as much as your photography is worth to them.

  11. It’s different now because of digital photography. Ten years ago, shooting for free meant eating the cost of film, processing and Polaroids unless the client paid your costs. Today, all a free shoot costs you is your time. Pixels are free!
    No, actually, pixels are not free — but thanks for playing. Cameras and camera shutters have a lifespan of a few hundred thousand frames. Divide the number of frames you shot for free by the cost of the camera, and you’ll begin to get a sense of how much that shoot cost you. That doesn’t count the cost of Photoshop for post-production, storage of the raw files, burning them to CD for your clients, and on and on.

  12. Once I stopped worrying about charging for shoots, I have had offers and requests coming at me from all directions. I want my photographs to benefit the world and to help other people. It’s not about the money.
    Of course you have “offers and requests” coming at you from all directions. So does the drunk girl at the club who hops on the slippery oak bar-top with a short skirt and no underwear and says, “If you see anything you like, I’ll be in the back offering it for free.” You’re surprised that a line forms immediately? So, you want to “help other people.” How about helping those who earn a living producing photographs by not undercutting them? That’s the best way to ensure that great photography continues to benefit the world.


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mikekelley
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Dec 21, 2010 23:53 |  #2

Not this **** again...

You can just avoid all of this by working in a market where people CAN'T do that type of work for free. I don't know what's more annoying, people who actually work for free, or people who **** about people who work for free.


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mike_d
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Dec 21, 2010 23:57 |  #3

If someone wants to work for free to build experience and contacts, that's their business. I don't see it as any different than an unpaid internship.




  
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alabama1980
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Dec 21, 2010 23:59 |  #4

mikekelley wrote in post #11495129 (external link)
Not this **** again...

You can just avoid all of this by working in a market where people CAN'T do that type of work for free. I don't know what's more annoying, people who actually work for free, or people who **** about people who work for free.


Sorry for kicking a dead horse, so to speak. I just don't recall seeing this issue taken on with such disdain for those making an attempt. I've seen a little bit of it here from time to time, but this guys attitude about it was a bit over the top, and maybe it was supposed to be just that for effect and so people would cross post on other forums...;)


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SE ­ Smith ­ Jr
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Dec 22, 2010 01:00 as a reply to  @ alabama1980's post |  #5

IMAGE: http://www.coyotescorner.net/images/smilies/Beating_A_Dead_Horse_by_livius.gif

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NeutronBoy
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Dec 22, 2010 07:44 |  #6

One point never mentioned in the free wars is that if paid guys hate it so much, they should perhaps reconsider ways to reduce that 'unfair' competition. Maybe they should make themselves more accesible to those looking to break into the industry and have them as apprentices. It's very difficult to get experience shooting with a pro - so many just skip this phase and do it for free.

Yes, this is adead horse and no amount of complaining by the pros will change it one iota. They should learn to use it to their own benefit.


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team ­ haymaker
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Dec 22, 2010 10:56 |  #7

that guy sounds like a douche that feels he's better than everyone


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Dec 22, 2010 11:04 |  #8

team haymaker wrote in post #11497118 (external link)
that guy sounds like a douche that feels he's better than everyone

+1....too bad there's people like that out there.


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Village_Idiot
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Dec 22, 2010 11:13 |  #9

So I could open up shop and charge $500 a session and instead of shooting for free, I wouldn't be shooting at all.

Who would pay a wedding photographer $1500 to shoot their first wedding?

Who would pay a band photographer $500 to shoot their show if the photographer's portfolio consist of local cover bands?


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Dec 22, 2010 12:54 |  #10

http://www.zarias.com …you-say-you-can-blame-me/ (external link)


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Dec 22, 2010 13:12 |  #11

Hang out Here > https://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdis​play.php?f=23

The topic comes up at least once a week.


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robertwsimpson
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Dec 22, 2010 13:22 |  #12

I'm not sure why anyone who was confident in his work and the results he produces would feel threatened by someone willing to do something for free. If it's worth the money, it's worth the money.




  
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sandpiper
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Dec 22, 2010 13:47 |  #13

Village_Idiot wrote in post #11497189 (external link)
So I could open up shop and charge $500 a session and instead of shooting for free, I wouldn't be shooting at all.

Who would pay a wedding photographer $1500 to shoot their first wedding?

Who would pay a band photographer $500 to shoot their show if the photographer's portfolio consist of local cover bands?

That would depend how good you were. You can build a portfolio of portraits by shooting family members (free probably, but we pretty much all take family shots anyway). If a friend or family member is getting married, you can get shots there too. OK, a band, you might need to strike a deal with a local band to get portfolio shots.

There is a big difference between $500 a session and 'free' though. So long as you have a portfolio which shows you know how to operate a camera, and get good quality images, you don't need shots of what you are shooting, to get a paid booking. You can get a wedding gig by showing good portrait work etc., and offering a lower price as 'it will enhance your portfolio'. You may not get $1500, but many will jump at a $500 offer for a good photographer, who just hasn't shot a wedding before.

Shooting 'free' rarely helps build a business (although working alongside a pro for nothing, as second shooter, can help with the learning experience). Many bands learned quickly that there are plenty of people happy to work for nothing. You will get plenty of chances to work free, but as soon as you want to move on to paid work, they will just switch to the next guy working free.

I won't have a go at those that work for nothing, that is their choice and they have every right to make it. If a full time working pro can't compete, then either they need to improve their work or the free shooting amateur really doesn't need to worry about getting paid. If their work is good enough to take work from the pros, it's good enough to charge decent money for.

If you can only get work when you don't charge, you don't have what it takes to get paid work. You can choose to continue to work for nothing, but don't expect that to change anytime soon. Any recommendations passed on by those you shoot free, will generally produce 'customers' who also expect you to be free, as that is where you set your value.

Maybe you can't just open up shop and charge those prices, I don't know. Many do though. If you have good images as an amateur, you can find customers who will pay, when you decide to start looking for clients.




  
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mbellot
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Dec 22, 2010 13:53 |  #14

robertwsimpson wrote in post #11497859 (external link)
I'm not sure why anyone who was confident in his work and the results he produces would feel threatened by someone willing to do something for free. If it's worth the money, it's worth the money.

Bingo.

I shoot for free and for money, as the situation and my preference dictate.




  
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blueM
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Dec 22, 2010 13:56 |  #15

SE Smith Jr wrote in post #11495317 (external link)
[GIFS ARE NOT RENDERED IN QUOTES]

This made reading this thread worthwhile ... now saved


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