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Thread started 22 Dec 2010 (Wednesday) 20:28
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What should I do with photos that may be published?

 
sixtwo
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Dec 22, 2010 20:28 |  #1

Here's the break down:
I was approached by an engineer who is working on something that is a big deal for the safety of sports teams, football in particular. I'm really not allowed to go into detail here till all this comes out next month.
He wanted me to take photos of his prototype for his company to use in two major publications.
I'm not a professional, and he said it was either me or him taking the photos and he's rather pay me.
I know a lot of people are going to look at this in a lot of different lights as to why me and why not spend extra money etc.
Bottom line is he paid me.
In return I am giving him full resolution jpegs and he is going to photoshop them the way he wants ie. removing small imperfections on the product since I don't know anything about the actual product.
He says I will get photo credits in all publications and on the website etc.
So my question is simple...Do I need to watermark or put any sort of copy right info on the photos?
Is this a situation where more publications might use the images and should have to pay me rights or does it not work that way?
Sorry for the long drawn out post, just trying to get some insight as these photos will have to be delivered tomorrow.


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HappySnapper90
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Dec 22, 2010 21:48 |  #2

sixtwo wrote in post #11500120 (external link)
He wanted me to take photos of his prototype for his company to use in two major publications.

In return I am giving him full resolution jpegs and he is going to photoshop them the way he wants ie. removing small imperfections on the product since I don't know anything about the actual product.

He says I will get photo credits in all publications and on the website etc.
So my question is simple...Do I need to watermark or put any sort of copy right info on the photos?

If you are being given photo credit, why would you also want to watermark the photos? Think about it.

Photos used in "major publications" are not watermarked. Watermarking is for image protection and branding mainly for web viewing, but you were paid to shoot this for the publication so you have nothing to protect.

No watermark. You've been told you will be credited.




  
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Dec 22, 2010 21:51 as a reply to  @ HappySnapper90's post |  #3

Simple question:

When was the last time you saw a watermark across a photo of a product in a magazine?


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chakalakasp
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Dec 23, 2010 00:18 |  #4

Register your copyrights. Register your copyrights. Register your copyrights.

And get a good contract that spells out exactly how the image can be used!


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sixtwo
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Dec 23, 2010 06:44 |  #5

I guess when I said watermark I went I meant digital watermark, maybe something that is on the file itself and not visible on the image.
Thanks for the information guys, just wanted to hear some opinions.


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RDKirk
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Dec 23, 2010 08:06 |  #6

The EXIF should contain your identification as copyright owner (presuming you don't explicitly transfer that to the client in your written contract), including contact information. My EXIF includes the URL of a hidden page in my website that contains more copyright and contact information.

I have a Photoshop action set up called "JPEG Prep" that, among other things, writes all that information to the EXIF as a last step in my image preparation.


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sspellman
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Dec 24, 2010 09:56 |  #7

62-

If he paid you(as with any commercial job) the client would never expect any logos on the pictures nor will you normally get photo credit. The client will provide the pictures for any media or magazine use and you will not get credit or compensation. Typically, usage rights or permision to use the pictures is always negociated before the shoot and is an important factor in determining the fees. If you do not negociate usage rights, it is common for commercial clients to expect to be able to use the images without any restrictions or requirements of photo credit. For commercial work, all income will come from the initial photo shoot fees-negociate carefully.

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sandpiper
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Dec 24, 2010 10:53 |  #8

sixtwo wrote in post #11500120 (external link)
So my question is simple...Do I need to watermark or put any sort of copy right info on the photos?
Is this a situation where more publications might use the images and should have to pay me rights or does it not work that way?
Sorry for the long drawn out post, just trying to get some insight as these photos will have to be delivered tomorrow.

Well, what did you agree with the client?

You can embed your details in the exif if you wish, but not visibly watermark the image for publication. As for selling to other publications, that isn't normally done with such commercial work, although could be discussed with the client.

Unless you specifically sign over the copyright, that will remain with you, however extra fees would normally only come from selling further usage rights to the client. If your initial contract states that he has usage rights for those two publications, then any further publication later would be negotiated again for an extra fee. If you didn't spell out what the usage licence was for, then they may assume they have the right to use it as they wish and you will have a hard time proving otherwise if you don't have it written in the contract.

We can't help you with who can do what with the images, that comes down to what is in the contract between you and your client.




  
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amfoto1
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Dec 26, 2010 10:50 |  #9

sandpiper wrote in post #11508218 (external link)
Well, what did you agree with the client?

You can embed your details in the exif if you wish, but not visibly watermark the image for publication. As for selling to other publications, that isn't normally done with such commercial work, although could be discussed with the client.

Unless you specifically sign over the copyright, that will remain with you, however extra fees would normally only come from selling further usage rights to the client. If your initial contract states that he has usage rights for those two publications, then any further publication later would be negotiated again for an extra fee. If you didn't spell out what the usage licence was for, then they may assume they have the right to use it as they wish and you will have a hard time proving otherwise if you don't have it written in the contract.

We can't help you with who can do what with the images, that comes down to what is in the contract between you and your client.

All this is correct... Except the bolded part may or may not be true. A photographer I know shot an assignment for an airplane manufacturer/lessor. It was the most expensive shoot he'd ever done. It cost the client well into six figures to get the shot, and that didn't count taking a dozen aircraft out of service for two days (at $2500 an hour apiece), to use in the shot.

You would think this would be a one time thing and that the photographer might as well sign over all rights to the client, since they would have limited use. However he later sold the image several times as stock, to other clients, after Photoshopping the logos out of the image.

OP, look into licensing contracts. Your client will probably want some exclusivity for a while, and might want to put a restriction on that the image can't be sold to known competitors for their use, or similar.

By licensing only what the client needs, you help them keep their costs down. Selling full rights (transfer of copyright), should be ultra expensive. A lot of photographers who haven't done their homework literally give away their rights, just because they can't predict further usage of the image in the future. But it's often the unexpected future usage that's most worthwhle... so hang onto your rights, license your client the usage and protections they need right now, so they only have to pay for that, and perhaps give them a right to reuse at a discount in the near future, if they wish. It sounds as if this is a prototype item, which they probably have a lot invested in and no income from, so they are likely on a tight budget with it.

I always embed the terms of licensing in the EXIF, too. If providind a CD/DVD, it can be a good idea to make up a simple README.txt file with the details of licensing, too, and put that on the disk with the image(s). If you wish, a PDF of the original license and job contract might be put on the disk, too.

Normally for commercial photography you would only watermark the proofs, during the selection process. This is so that unfinished images are not accidentally used, as much as it is to protect them from theft.

Once the images are finalized for their purposes, do not watermark or sign them in any way. Nor is a "photo credit" normally given for this type of use, unless it's a photo for a press release that will appear in magazines, newspapers or online publications. If they are dangling a "photo credit" as part of your reward and compensation, forget about it... Only you and your mother are likely to even notice and read a credit... and you can't pay the mortgage or fill your car's gas tank with a pile of photo credits.


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MJPhotos24
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Dec 27, 2010 00:29 |  #10

Only credit I ever give a rats behind about is the one written on the check, credit is something that should be done every single time and not a big deal - somewhere along the line editors realized newbies were naive enough to think it meant something, blunt I know but so true.

ALWAYS put your info in your images, I've gotten people paid (i.e. played middle man) off images I found online and looked at the EXIF data, contacted the photographer and got them published. This probably won't be the case with this type shoot, but it happens. Make sure you always try to keep as much of your rights as you can or get paid a good rate for losing them, protect yourself with contracts as well.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Jan 01, 2011 23:04 |  #11

sixtwo wrote in post #11500120 (external link)
Is this a situation where more publications might use the images and should have to pay me rights or does it not work that way?

In actuality, the images are his, not yours, since he paid you to shoot them.

According to the scenario you described, the images were produced as a "work for hire", and all copyright interests belong to the guy (or company) that hired you to do the shoot.

As far as copyright issues and legal matters are concerned, there is a vast difference between someone paying you for images that you have already taken, and someone paying you to shoot images for them.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
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TopHatMoments
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Jan 02, 2011 13:07 |  #12

Tom Reichner wrote in post #11555938 (external link)
In actuality, the images are his, not yours, since he paid you to shoot them.

Incorrect.

I'm not going to banter over copyright laws, since they are so easy to look up.

The copyright goes according to how the contract states, full-time, limited, or otherwise.

When a three party signature is required, I hire a notary an be done with it.

If legal issues come into large play, I let my lawyer talk to there's and go from there.

It's not hard to do it's just a step by step process, that has a predefined course to follow.

Making things harder than they really are, is a waste of time and blog room legalities.


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RDKirk
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Jan 02, 2011 15:07 as a reply to  @ TopHatMoments's post |  #13

According to the scenario you described, the images were produced as a "work for hire", and all copyright interests belong to the guy (or company) that hired you to do the shoot.

This is not true. Read this:

http://www.keytlaw.com​/Copyrights/wfhire.htm (external link)

Of special import for photographers: This is why second shooters may have more rights to the images they shoot than most photographers realize. If you want to own the images your second shooters take, make darned sure the contract explicitly transfers the copyright to you.


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What should I do with photos that may be published?
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