Couple of hours on M33

Been trying to get a decent image of this for months. Finally got some good data that captured some of the nebula in the arms of M33. Thoughts?

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/49217915@N04/5​302001763/

Very nice!!

I'd like to capture M33, but it seems like the subs are very dim and I have problems capturing color correctly. How do you balance the color with the CLS filter? Are you using DSS or something else for the stacking?

Doug

Still clipping the dark points too much. Doing so, you're also clipping away at faint details the extend out in the arms of the galaxy or even within the galaxy. You also might be removing other faint jewels in the FOV.
There is also no color whatsoever in the stars, and there is some red within the galaxy that looks as though it was added as an after thought to add some color to it.
I also see you used two different exposures. You do realize that's not necessary and can actually do more harm than good. Stacking averages your exposures, and when you do that and can actually reduce your total cumulative exposure. (E.g 1x 3min 45sec (225sec) + 1x 3min (180sec) = 1x 3min 42.5sec (202.5sec) after being stacked together). if you're 225second exposures are good there is no reason to shoot anything shorter. There is no purpose for doing that, unless of course it's an object like the Orion nebula when you shoot different exposures and stack them separately for later blending in Photoshop; as in or similar to shooting HDR Images.

I don't mean to seem so harsh or critical, but what I see you doing are the same mistakes I and many others have done also. Over clipping the dark points! Space is dark, not pitch black. And there are stars do have some color surrounding M33.
It was on advice similar to what you're getting now that set me on the right track. Now I just need clear stable skies so I can get out and do some astrophotography myself before I forget how to.

I would love to have a crack at your Stacked data before you put it into Photoshop.

tkerr wrote in post #11542898
Still clipping the dark points too much. Doing so, you're also clipping away at faint details the extend out in the arms of the galaxy or even within the galaxy. You also might be removing other faint jewels in the FOV.
There is also no color whatsoever in the stars, and there is some red within the galaxy that looks as though it was added as an after thought to add some color to it.
I also see you used two different exposures. You do realize that's not necessary and can actually do more harm than good. Stacking averages your exposures, and when you do that and can actually reduce your total cumulative exposure. (E.g 1x 3min 45sec (225sec) + 1x 3min (180sec) = 1x 3min 42.5sec (202.5sec) after being stacked together). if you're 225second exposures are good there is no reason to shoot anything shorter. There is no purpose for doing that, unless of course it's an object like the Orion nebula when you shoot different exposures and stack them separately for later blending in Photoshop; as in or similar to shooting HDR Images.

I don't mean to seem so harsh or critical, but what I see you doing are the same mistakes I and many others have done also. Over clipping the dark points! Space is dark, not pitch black. And there are stars do have some color surrounding M33.
It was on advice similar to what you're getting now that set me on the right track. Now I just need clear stable skies so I can get out and do some astrophotography myself before I forget how to.

I would love to have a crack at your Stacked data before you put it into Photoshop.

Hello Tim,

The red in the arms are actually IC nebula within the arms, I toned down the reds as the cam picked them up very well (not really big on red). The galaxy was lassoed and brightness brought up in concentric lasso circles from the center. After I thought I eeked out all the detail from the galaxy I deliberately clipped the surrounding space. In hind sight I may have clipped some detail, I will reprocess and check it out later. And yes I am aware of the stacking Issue. Each sub stack was stacked indivdually and added as you would an orion layer. This is an experiment to see if I can perserve core detail without the lasso. And yep the star color is almost gone. I will work on that. Don't Know if it's the CLS filter or over streching with the curves and levels.

I stack with Maxim DL and move straight into photoshop for processing using PS scripps provided by R.Andero,N.Carboni and others.
I will put the stacked data up for you if you give me instruction how. The fourm text box will not allow a .tiff file to be uploaded.

dugpatrick wrote in post #11542631
Very nice!!

I'd like to capture M33, but it seems like the subs are very dim and I have problems capturing color correctly. How do you balance the color with the CLS filter? Are you using DSS or something else for the stacking?

Doug

Hi,

I stack with MaximDL and move straight to Photoshop. I did the custom white balance with a grey card for the CLS filter so later all I have to do is use the Photoshop Histogram, and Levels to balance the color. Later I will adjust to my taste and comparisons with other photographers with curves to arrive at a comprable image to most.

Sullij wrote in post #11543832
Hi,

I stack with MaximDL and move straight to Photoshop. I did the custom white balance with a grey card for the CLS filter so later all I have to do is use the Photoshop Histogram, and Levels to balance the color. Later I will adjust to my taste and comparisons with other photographers with curves to arrive at a comprable image to most.

Here are some comparisons:

For comparisons I will look at guys like Jerry Lodigruss Rogelio Andreo (Nebulas) and Tony Hallas, Both guys are Astronomy picture of the Day (APOD) winners, I will use them for models for my photos.

Follow this link and mouse over Jerry's photo to see the IC Nebulas names and note the coloring, Mr Lodigruss has done our homework for us, Lodigruss site:
http://www.astropix.co​m …M33_Triangulum_​Galaxy.HTM
Or Tony's Hallas photo here:
http://www.astrophoto.​com/M33.htm
You can veiw tKerr's redition here:
http://www.photoshop.c​om …eceb540de80e105​068224099a
Rogelio Andreo (nebula guy)
http://blog.deepskycol​ors.com/

Sullij wrote in post #11544450
Here are some comparisons:

For comparisons I will look at guys like Jerry Lodigruss Rogelio Andreo (Nebulas) and Tony Hallas, Both guys are Astronomy picture of the Day (APOD) winners, I will use them for models for my photos.

Follow this link and mouse over Jerry's photo to see the IC Nebulas names and note the coloring, Mr Lodigruss has done our homework for us, Lodigruss site:
http://www.astropix.co​m …M33_Triangulum_​Galaxy.HTM
Or Tony's Hallas photo here:
http://www.astrophoto.​com/M33.htm
You can veiw tKerr's redition here:
http://www.photoshop.c​om …eceb540de80e105​068224099a
Rogelio Andreo (nebula guy)
http://blog.deepskycol​ors.com/

Checking out APOD and other web sites, or just searching through Google Images is a great assist. I often look around to compare what other people do with a certain DSO to see how it should probably look when I am done. But we also have to take into consideration the differences in cameras, Telescopes, mounts and experience. I try to look at the specs to see what people are producing with similar equipment. Trying to compare what I do or you do, and try to emulate it when the person you're comparing to is using much supperior equipment and has about 20 years or more experience than you is only going to get frustrating.
Even then they aren't always right just because they are "Professionls". IMHO, the image of M33 taken by Tony Hallas has too much noise when compared to most other professional images of M33. I have noticed that in several of his images. But, he sells prints and print quality is usually smoother. Nonetheless when considering the equipment he uses, the amount of experience, and the fact that he holds a College Degree for what he does I would expect much better. IMHO, Jerry's picture blows Tony's away.

The link to my version of M33 is a couple years old, shot with a 350D through a little 80mm refractor and processed with PS Elements. There is no comparison next to those guys. Additionally, like I said I was guilty of over clipping too, and that one as well as some of my other older images show it. I know I made mistakes, I still make mistakes, but I listen an learn from people like me who have made similar mistakes. I also took a lot of advise and continue to learn a lot from people such as Richard Crisp, Jay Ballauer, Greg Parker and Noel Carboni. I have also used the advice in Jerry Lodriguss's wonderful tutorials.
http://www.astropix.co​m/HTML/J_DIGIT/DIGTECH​S.HTM.


When looking at those other images such as Jerry and Tony's, notice, that the background and stars are not completely void of any image/color data.

When you make adjustments using either Curves or Levels keep an eye on the histogram. Equalize each color channel and make sure you're not clipping into the image data, especially on the dark points. I usually don't even mess with the bright/highlights because that is when you blow out your stars or nebula and galaxy cores. My problem used to be that I didn't have the patience and spend enough time at it. I would stretch the hitogram to get it brightened up then clip the dark points in my humble attempts to correct for light pollution and lack of image data. Since then however, I have learned to spend more time adjusting curves and levels taking baby steps. I could spend hours upon hours just on getting the initial steps of stretching the histogram right before moving onto any NR or Enhancements that might be necessary or desired. More recent upgrades in software and learning to work with adjustment layers and layer masks have helped improve my capabilities more recently too.

To share large files you will need to use a file host such as Mediafire.com or similar. Then when you upload your files to the host you will have a share link that can give to whoever you want so they can download the file.
Mediafire is just one example, I have used them but you might want to look around. Some have more restrictions than others.

Thanks for the advice. I will look for an upload site.

Happy New Year!

http://www.yourfilelin​k.com/

I've used it many times!

NovaTJ wrote in post #11551808
http://www.yourfilelin​k.com/

I've used it many times!

Thanks and Happy New Year.

Ok Here ya go, this is the up load file link:
http://www.yourfilelin​k.com/get.php?fid=5981​77

And a couple of variations

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/49217915@N04/5​318811708/

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/49217915@N04/5​318824536/

You didn't shoot any Flats with that, and the hot spot is making it hard to PP. Looking at the stars I am also seeing some collimation issues. I am seeing quite a bit of coma, and some that have that seagull look also. I will post my results with your image as soon as I get it reasonably presentable.

Are you shooting if full size RAW or did you reduce the size of the picture.
Your image data is pretty good, good SNR, but flats would seriously help a lot. some serious hot spot vignetting in there.

I only spent a short time on it equalizing/aligning the color channels as much as I could, and adjusting the curves and levels.

Here it is with the histogram when I finished. Looks better before I saved it For Web And Devices to attach to this message.

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And another variation of it darker trying to correct for the hot spot. I could probably create a false flat, but even that won't correct for it as nearly as good as real flats..
For this one I created a duplicate layer of the previous version, and then used Noels LP removal action, change the layer blending to Softlight and adjusted the opacity and fill to 70%

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Nice color!