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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 10 Jan 2011 (Monday) 18:41
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7d actuation count

 
K6AZ
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Feb 11, 2011 22:08 |  #46

solara wrote in post #11825900 (external link)
I don't plan to ever buy used gear unless it's for parts or disposable use. I'm just trying to inform and empower others who may buy used so that they can be a more informed buyer.

That's too bad. I bought a used 1D Mark IV for less than $3500 while they were still selling new at the $5000 list price. I've put over 10k on it with no issues whatsoever.


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Feb 11, 2011 22:20 |  #47

K6AZ wrote in post #11826146 (external link)
That's too bad. I bought a used 1D Mark IV for less than $3500 while they were still selling new at the $5000 list price. I've put over 10k on it with no issues whatsoever.

Ditto here as well. I might try gphoto2 on my Ubuntu VM with the 1D4, but I believe it only works on the 1DII and 1DIII. Might try it on the 5D2, but astrojargon works just fine and takes about 10 sec. I forgot to ask Canon for the shutter count when they had it. By time I thought of it, they had it out in Fedex 2 day.


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jwcdds
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Feb 11, 2011 22:41 |  #48

solara wrote in post #11825904 (external link)
Of course. But if EVERY buyer is smart about and asked for it, then sellers would have no choice but to provide it. That's the beauty of supply and demand, and an informed buying public.

Let's put it this way, if someone were to buy a used camera, what reason would a person NOT want to know the actuation number????? I can't think of a single reason why a person would NOT want to know how many times a camera has had it's shutter actuated.

And what guarantee does the seller have that the buyer won't try to screw with them via Paypal? ("Oh, someone hacked into my account, I didn't make such a purchase,") and run away with the loot?

As noted... whenever you're dealing with the used market (unless you're buying used from brick-n-mortar establishments), you're taking a pretty big risk both as a seller, and as a buyer. That's why there's a feedback thread here in the forums. That's why you do the necessary research regarding equipments (i.e., 1d3 fix or 5d2 mirror fix), etc...

What you don't seem to see/accept is that if something is priced right (and that threshold varies from one buyer to another), someone's going to pick it up. If there was a 7D being listed used for $1000 on the for sale forum, I would bet that within 30-60minutes, payment would have been sent and the thread locked because item sold. If you even had the chance, you would be the only one "demanding" a shutter count on the camera. While (assuming this camera is in working order), someone will soon get their working 7D and put on another 30-40k actuations before selling it used again for likely the same price.

Perhaps that's how you approach life/things. Perhaps before you ever go out with a girl you might be interested, you also demand that she run to the lab and get a blood drawn and get tested for HIV/Hep/STD. It's the safe thing to do. It's for your own protection. And if enough people raised their dating standards, then this can become the norm.

;)

In other words... be happy that you possess the technical know-how to check. Be proud that you can provide such information to buyers should you ever sell your 7D. (But to be honest, someone could also "claim" they ran the program and fabricate a number.) As a buyer, you take that risk on whether the seller is being completely honest with you or not. And once you get it in hand, and check the numbers yourself, if doesn't match... what are you going to do?

Just sayin'.

There are a lot of bright hackers/programmers out there. It'll just take time, and have the right programmer/hacker to want to bother with this to produce something simple to share with the general public.


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K6AZ
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Feb 11, 2011 22:54 |  #49

jwcdds wrote in post #11826272 (external link)
Perhaps that's how you approach life/things. Perhaps before you ever go out with a girl you might be interested, you also demand that she run to the lab and get a blood drawn and get tested for HIV/Hep/STD. It's the safe thing to do. It's for your own protection. And if enough people raised their dating standards, then this can become the norm.

IMAGE: http://www.k6az.com/smilies/snick_bunny.gif

That has to be the best analogy I've ever read on a photo board.

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Feb 11, 2011 23:13 |  #50

I tried to demand that my wife let me see the scales when she weighed herself. I mean really, I need to know those stats since it directly ties to her wear and tear, and what I expect to pay in healthcare in the future. As you can see, she went to bed, and I am relegated to the basement posting on the boards instead of getting a lil' sumpin' sumpin'. I now have this waiting for her in the morning. ;)

Side note: it is so much fun shooting the ol' 1D at 12800 using the eye-fi card. Just shoot away, walk over to the laptop and the pics, for the most part, are all waiting. :)


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solara
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Feb 11, 2011 23:15 |  #51

As a seller it might be prudent to document exactly how many actuations were on the camera at the time you shipped it. This will also protect the seller in case the buyer claims otherwise.

And if as a buyer you find the actuation number is truly off from what the seller had stated, then it's considered "false advertising" and you would try to get recourse in the usual way - whatever way that is. Hopefully you bought it through Paypal which provides some protection to the buyer.

And yes, there's the potential for fraud at both ends. But that's true whether you know the actuation number or not. I can't guarantee or solve all the woes of mankind......:p


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Feb 11, 2011 23:16 |  #52

There seems to be a huge hang-up on the word 'demand' here. Perhaps I should have said 'asked' or 'requested'. Happy?

@TeamSpeed, regarding your wife, if the seller ain't willing to sell, then it's time to find another seller! :cool:


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solara
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Feb 11, 2011 23:19 |  #53

Hopefully some bright programmer will port the libgphoto2 library and gtkam program to Windows so sellers can't whine about the inconvenience of providing the information, and buyers can be more empowered.


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Feb 11, 2011 23:27 |  #54

solara wrote in post #11826410 (external link)
There seems to be a huge hang-up on the word 'demand' here. Perhaps I should have said 'asked' or 'requested'. Happy?

@TeamSpeed, regarding your wife, if the seller ain't willing to sell, then it's time to find another seller! :cool:

That gets way too expensive... it is easier to just ask forgiveness! :D


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Feb 11, 2011 23:32 |  #55

solara wrote in post #11826414 (external link)
Hopefully some bright programmer will port the libgphoto2 library and gtkam program to Windows so sellers can't whine about the inconvenience of providing the information, and buyers can be more empowered.

Just out of curiosity... Why do you seem so hell-bent on buyer-empowerment on used stuff when I thought I read back a few posts where you stated you don't buy used? And then you go on chastising people for not being technically savvy enough and being a bunch of whiners? Aren't there more worthy causes to take up? Like clean water for the world? Human rights for all? Affordable, high-quality universal health care?

It's the first time I've read anyone taking up a cause with such passion when it doesn't apply to one's self. So it's piqued my interest. :)


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Feb 11, 2011 23:40 |  #56

jwcdds wrote in post #11826462 (external link)
Just out of curiosity... Why do you seem so hell-bent on buyer-empowerment on used stuff when I thought I read back a few posts where you stated you don't buy used? And then you go on chastising people for not being technically savvy enough and being a bunch of whiners? Aren't there more worthy causes to take up? Like clean water for the world? Human rights for all? Affordable, high-quality universal health care?

It's the first time I've read anyone taking up a cause with such passion when it doesn't apply to one's self. So it's piqued my interest. :)

Good point, I was curious about that as well. I've had very good luck with bodies I've purchased here but instead of demanding exact shutter counts I did my homework on the sellers.


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Feb 11, 2011 23:44 |  #57

jwcdds wrote in post #11826462 (external link)
Just out of curiosity... Why do you seem so hell-bent on buyer-empowerment on used stuff when I thought I read back a few posts where you stated you don't buy used? And then you go on chastising people for not being technically savvy enough and being a bunch of whiners? Aren't there more worthy causes to take up? Like clean water for the world? Human rights for all? Affordable, high-quality universal health care?

It's the first time I've read anyone taking up a cause with such passion when it doesn't apply to one's self. So it's piqued my interest. :)

Plus my offer still stands from before, just waiting for the post. I could add my methodology but it is more steps and takes longer due to the downloads and installs. If there is truly buyer empowerment being sought, a nice FAQ write-up would prove it and 7D buyers around the world will rejoice. Since I "inherited" the 7D sticky thread, I have control over that first TOC post and can add whatever I want to it. :)


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solara
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Feb 11, 2011 23:47 |  #58

Does someone need a selfish reason to want to help? Sure I don't plan to buy used (never have so it's not like I have a grudge or bad experience), but like I said, since I spent so much time (a couple hours) making this work, I figured someone could benefit from it. Before I found gphoto2/gtkam, I thought there was no way short of spending money and sending it to Canon to get the actuation count. Plus, as I mentioned in one my responses, I never believe when a seller claims that they barely used a camera body. Even if they claim it's new, I think a buyer would benefit from verifying that.

As for saving the world, can't someone do a small deed? Not everyone has the time, money to do large like Bill Gates. And who says I'm not already doing something to contribute to society? I'm quite happy with my career keeping kids alive and healthy thank you.

I never chastised anyone for not being technical enough - you're probably referring to another poster. And as for whining, well, yes, that's true.:evil::evil::evil::evil:


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solara
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Feb 11, 2011 23:48 |  #59

@TeamSpeed, I think my detailed write-up on how I got the bootable USB drive was pretty clear and concise. I spent more than enough time on that.


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K6AZ
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Feb 11, 2011 23:52 |  #60

solara wrote in post #11826537 (external link)
@TeamSpeed, I think my detailed write-up on how I got the bootable USB drive was pretty clear and concise. I spent more than enough time on that.

You do know there are Windows apps for making bootable Linux flash drives, right?


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