Lightroom Problem . . .

YankeeMom wrote in post #11682858
With LR, they are pretty severe -- all of my conversions are, at least, 2 shades darker (or under-exposed) compared to how it looked when I edited them. When I load the under-exposed jpeg back into LR, it looks right again, so it looks under-exposed when I view it in Windows Picture viewer and on my Flickr site. This is not going to work for me, so unless I figure it out, I will have to stick with DPP or try PS.

Okay.
So this is a color management / profile / calibration issue: LR shows both images fine, yet the jpg looks way too dark in a non colormanaged application. How does the LR edited jpg look in DPP?

In DPP, both look fine as well, and the jpg looks "closer to DPP" in a non colormanaged application? I'm guessing you are using different settings in DPP then in LR (for exposure etc.)?

In that case, I'm guessing you have your monitor profile in DPP prefs set to "sRGB"? It should be set to your monitor profile.

If you did have DPP set right, my guess is your monitor profile is corrupt.

Scatterbrained wrote in post #11682981
Just a thought, why don't you compare the histograms between the photos. I normally use the histograms and RGB level indicators to determine if my exposure is where I want it since the light levels in my office change dramatically throughout the day and night.

I guess I'm like Scott Kelby -- I don't usually look at the histogram. But I could compare and see. Thanks.

René Damkot wrote in post #11684346
Okay.
So this is a color management / profile / calibration issue: LR shows both images fine, yet the jpg looks way too dark in a non colormanaged application. How does the LR edited jpg look in DPP?

In DPP, both look fine as well, and the jpg looks "closer to DPP" in a non colormanaged application? I'm guessing you are using different settings in DPP then in LR (for exposure etc.)?

In that case, I'm guessing you have your monitor profile in DPP prefs set to "sRGB"? It should be set to your monitor profile.

If you did have DPP set right, my guess is your monitor profile is corrupt.

Not sure, but I will look. (I have to confess that RGB and all that is lost on me.) I just don't understand how my monitor could be bad when I see everyone else's photos correctly? So confusing and, with my limited knowledge and understanding, I'm not sure I will be able to figure this out (even your explanations and suggestions are largely over my head.) I do hope to get a new computer within the year and maybe that will help? I don't want to give up on LR, but it's already a head-ache and DPP really has been fine for me.

If anyone has the inclination, maybe you could take a look at some of my Flickr photos? Do they all look "off" to you? They look right to me as I see them on my monitor (with some exceptions of course, I am not a perfect photographer.) The folders have the best photos.

Thanks so much -- I really do appreciate all the help!

Kristin, I don't think anyone is saying that your monitor is bad, just your monitor profile.

Basically, when working with photography, you want to calibrate your display to represent a specific value (things like the Spyder or other calibration tools can be had relatively cheaply). All monitors also have a default color profile, but these profiles are basically for a standard average of your monitor type, and typically brand new off the manufacturing line, so they aren't always accurate to what you need.

For the second part of what we're all saying, LR (and also Photoshop, since you mentioned trying it possibly) will always use managed colorspace for your system unless you set it manually to sRGB. I believe that DPP always uses sRGB. In fact, that might be your answer there. I'm at the office and have no Adobe software handy, but can anyone tell her how to set LR to use sRGB space? All of her work may then look the same as what she's expecting?

If one program is using managed colorspace and another is not, the images will very definitely look different. It might be worth looking into a color wand. I have one (couldn't tell you which until I get home tonight) that sticks on my monitor, runs through a sequence of colors so that it can see the difference in what is being displayed compared to what it expects (brightness, contrast, temperture) and sets the monitor correctly. You then place it in a little cradle next to the monitor and it constantly reevaluates based on the lighting conditions of the room (sunshine makes everything warmer, so it needs to cool the temp on the monitor, darkness makes everything brighter, so it needs to dim the monitor slightly, etc.). It's a very worthwhile expenditure.

xepherys wrote in post #11685393
Kristin, I don't think anyone is saying that your monitor is bad, just your monitor profile.

OK, I didn't know there was a difference.

I'm not sure what all this means, but I see that DPP is set to a default of sRGB. And so is my LR. Honestly, I don't even know what that means, but I exported another photo and still a few shades darker/under-exposed compared to what I see in LR. I will try again with a different photo.

I never heard of a color wand and not sure how it works -- I'll have to research that to understand. Thanks so much!

OK, here are some picture of what I see -- if you see it differently then something odd is going on!

Pic. 1 -- the "before and after" development (original SOOC to ready-to-export); just an OK shot, I know! LOL:

HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR

HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR

HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR

HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR

There is a problem with LR. It's not a bug because it is a consequence of a design decision made by the LR team, but it has caused grief for more than a few people and it might be the root of your problem. LR automatically inspects your system settings and uses the profile that is associated with your monitor. That's a good thing, Photoshop and other programs do that also, but LR uses the profile differently than the other programs and it uses it in a way that makes it very sensitive to any corruption in the profile. Even when those other programs are unaffected by the "corrupted" profile, LR throws a hissy fit. Usually the profiles that LR objects to are profiles installed by the monitor's driver, the generic profiles that xepherys mentioned.

DPP doesn't do the system check automatically; you have to go into Preferences and instruct it to either use a particular profile or to use whatever the system is using. If you don't do this DPP defaults to using sRGB, which is pretty much the same as turning off color management. So if you haven't made that setting in Preferences, DPP is not accurately showing you what's in the file. It will be the same as non-color managed browsers or viewers, but it won't be accurate.

LR will always use whatever display profile the operating system uses. The only way you can change that is by changing the system setting to sRGB. You can, of course, select sRGB as the space of an exported jpg or tif (in the Export dialog) but that is something else and has nothing to do with the display.

I wonder -- I'm not at my XP workstation right now but could Kristen set her monitor/display to use sRGB so that Lightroom may possibly get closer to DPP (until she properly calibrates her monitor)? Without XP on hand I can't give details...

tonylong wrote in post #11686598
I wonder -- I'm not at my XP workstation right now but could Kristen set her monitor/display to use sRGB so that Lightroom may possibly get closer to DPP (until she properly calibrates her monitor)? Without XP on hand I can't give details...

I think this will get you there --

Control Panel > Appearance and Themes > Display > Settings > Advanced > Color Management. Then, if necessary: Add > Set as Default > Apply

Is that what you're thinking, Tony?

Yeah, you could set the OS to use sRGB as a monitor profile. But that's not a solution; it's a workaround. And not an accurate one.

Again: Color management issue. View your images in a color managed application (DPP, if set up right; LR, Firefox) not in Windows P&F viewer.

You are not seeing everybody elses images on the web "correctly" if you are using Internet Explorer: IE is not color managed.

OK, then how come I see what everyone else sees? When I read a C&C thread and there are problems (with color, exposure, etc.) I see the problem. And does this mean that my photos on Flickr look wrong to everyone else?? (those with properly calibrated monitors??) If so, no one has told me!

(I do have XP and I do use IE. Yikes. But, again, I have had success with the many photos I've had printed. Maybe ignorance is bliss! But I really do want to see things correctly.)

Well you don't really. About a million years ago, when I was a grad student, I taught a freshman Philosophy 101 course. And in the first session I would awaken the students to the fact that although we all say that Santa's suit is red, it is very likely that each of us sees a different red. It's the same with monitors. Each monitor is unique and the chances are very high that what you see is slightly different from everybody else. But in most cases the variations are within a limited range. But if someone says he has a green cast in his photo, you will see green also; just like if some Xmas eve Santa shows up wearing a green suit everybody will know that something is not right, even though each one of us sees a different green.
For the most part, as long as the differences are not great it's no big deal. Especially for viewers that are not critical in their color judgement and don't really know what the original color was anyway. And for the large majority of web surfers if the image is in sRGB the differences will be small. The problem arises when it comes to printing. If "close enough is good enough" there is no problem, but people who are control freaks and fussy about color want to know how the print will look before it is sent to the printer. And that's where calibrating the monitor comes in.

tzalman wrote in post #11687480
Well you don't really. About a million years ago, when I was a grad student, I taught a freshman Philosophy 101 course. And in the first session I would awaken the students to the fact that although we all say that Santa's suit is red, it is very likely that each of us sees a different red. It's the same with monitors. Each monitor is unique and the chances are very high that what you see is slightly different from everybody else. But in most cases the variations are within a limited range. But if someone says he has a green cast in his photo, you will see green also; just like if some Xmas eve Santa shows up wearing a green suit everybody will know that something is not right, even though each one of us sees a different green.
For the most part, as long as the differences are not great it's no big deal. Especially for viewers that are not critical in their color judgement and don't really know what the original color was anyway. And for the large majority of web surfers if the image is in sRGB the differences will be small. The problem arises when it comes to printing. If "close enough is good enough" there is no problem, but people who are control freaks and fussy about color want to know how the print will look before it is sent to the printer. And that's where calibrating the monitor comes in.

OK, well, I'm definitely in the "if it's close enough it's good enough" camp. I just want to see (within reason) my converted jpegs to look like what I see in LR or I can't use it.

Saying that, maybe when I get a new computer, it will be better. In the meantime, I really am happy with DPP and I'll try PS just out of curiosity.

YankeeMom wrote in post #11686175
Pic. 4. Comparing what I see in Picture Viewer to what I see in LR. In LR, the photo looks lighter.

HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR

Any clues here?? (You can view larger images at my Flickr site.)

Now take the exported JPG and import it, without any presets being applied, back into LR. Then in Library mode view the two images (the edited RAW and the imported JPG version) side by side (X Y) and post a screen capture for us. I still want to see both versions side by side in the same application, LR.

YankeeMom wrote in post #11649000
Oh, my head is spinning a little . . . OK, I did edit them a little differently in both programs, so maybe comparing them directly doesn't make sense. (For example, I DID increase the saturation in the LR photo; I was playing with it more in LR, trying new things.)

So, my big complaint is that when I was done editing the image in LR, it looked pretty good, but when I converted it to a jpeg (what you see in this thread), it's much darker. I didn't like that. I need to know that what I see in my edit is going to look the same in the conversion or the program is no good for me. What I see in DPP is what I get when I convert.

I'm not sure how to post a screen-shot -- I see the "prt scr" button, but not sure where to paste it? Or turn it into a photo I can upload?

I should probably try this again with a new photos -- before and after. So far, it's happened with every photo I've edited. I'm sure I'm doing something wrong and maybe it is the black background. I didn't know I could change it, so thanks, Lindsey, I'll try that and see if that fixes things for me.

I notice that the EXIF data is erased (in Flickr) when I convert in DPP, but not in Lightroom. I have no idea why.

I will also try to open the LR converstion in DPP and see how it looks. Good idea.

It's interesting that Marc sees the exposure as identical -- the LR one looks darker to me. I guess some of you are saying that might just be from saturation? But, again, it doesn't look that dark until I convert. (Oh, and I am talking about what I see in "Develop." Not sure if it looked different in "Library.")

So much to think about -- I want to like Lightroom, but it's imperative that I solve this problem first! I know I'm still learning, so willing to do what it takes.

Thanks so much for all the helpful feedback!

Kristin,

I know exactly what you are talking about. I haven't figured it out either, what I have found is I can print an image from LR and then from the JPG and the one from LR looks right and the print from the JPG looks dark, just like on the screen. It is NOT a monitor calibration issue, in fact the darker images are fine for uploading as client proofs since most people have uncalibrated monitors that are brighter anyway. I don't seem to have the problem exporting from PS. I figured everyone had to have this issue, but in the end I guess I am as lost as anyone.