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Thread started 14 Sep 2005 (Wednesday) 14:02
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Bride/Groom won't pay....

 
pradeep1
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Sep 14, 2005 15:57 |  #16

I would send them a letter documenting your services, when you invoiced them (and a copy of the invoice), when you attempted to contact them, and then end the letter with a clear threat to use legal action if they do not pay within a certain period of time - give them 10 days and send your letter by certified mail with return receipt. You could take this to small claims court and probably win even if your contract was verbal. You can ask for a judgement in the amount of your invoice, interest, and court filings costs (anywhere from $25-100). Usually a letter from you and then a summons notice from the court quickly gets people who are "reasonable" to pay, since a judgement against them can haunt them for years and most sane people will not risk it for a mere few hundred dollars. However, you never know.

Hell, I would take them to court just so you can learn how the process of suing someone works and how to prepare for the case. You never know when it might come in handy in the future. In my business, we routinely sue companies and people who do not pay up, and we have won judgements even when the order was called in over the phone and we have no records of that conversation other than the invoice and shipping documents we can provide to the court. Usually the court looks upon the actions of the debtors, in that, if you invoiced them and contacted them repeatedly and they did not contact you, the court will sometimes look at their actions as being stalling in nature and may rule in your favor. I still say that since the amount is $400 and it is obviously important to you, do this as a learning experience when you need to go after real deadbeats in the future.

Once you get judgement against them, then getting them to pay might still be difficult. You can usually have the local sheriff take action against them. If you know where they live and what property they posess (cars, trucks, etc.) you can have the sheriff seize those to pay off your debts. I've had some of my deadbeat customer's trucks and cars booted by getting their make/model/license plate/VIN to the local sheriff and have them execute on that. Having a car or truck they use everyday booted up quickly gets their attention.

There are so many options, and it just best to call the Clerk of Court at your local Magistrates or Small Claims Court in your local county or jurisdiction and ask about the procedure.

It is surprisingly effective and judges tend to favor honest business people with good records.

Hope this helps and go get them.

Next time, remember to get a signed contract clearly documenting your agreed intentions, payment schedule, and have a clause about what collection method(s) you will use and how those costs will also be borne by them.

Pradeep

See here:

1. http://www.gov.ns.ca/j​ust/selfrep.htm (external link)
2. http://www.courts.ns.c​a/smallclaims/cl_info.​htm (external link)
3. http://www.courts.ns.c​a …small_claims_br​ochure.pdf (external link)

It seems that Small Claims Court fees in Nova Scotia are $80 CAD. If you are serious about doing business and running a business, I'd consider that an investment of your time and money to learn how to sue someone properly and efficiently. :)




  
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robertwgross
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Sep 14, 2005 18:31 as a reply to  @ post 777890 |  #17

guitarman wrote:
As well it would be very hard to get a judge to beleive that someone that was a total stranger to the bride and groom, would photograph their wedding for free.

Maybe. But that does not apply here. The photographer got part of the money up front. The clients might claim that the money was for the entire job. With no written agreement, or without any email record, this is almost impossible to prove.

A verbal agreement isn't worth the paper that it's not written on.

---Bob Gross---




  
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SWPhotoImaging
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Sep 14, 2005 20:30 |  #18

I would bet that their parents/grandparents would buy the pictures.


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guitarman
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Sep 14, 2005 20:59 as a reply to  @ robertwgross's post |  #19

robertwgross wrote:
Maybe. But that does not apply here. The photographer got part of the money up front. The clients might claim that the money was for the entire job. With no written agreement, or without any email record, this is almost impossible to prove.

A verbal agreement isn't worth the paper that it's not written on.

---Bob Gross---

I knew you would say that. But there again such an easy thing to disprove. Just go and get estimates from 3 or more wedding photographers and see how many of them are any where near $200. The judge would see that the evidence would show what the likelihood of a photographer doing a job for that little would be. In small claims court there doesn't always have to be beyond a preponderance of a doubt like criminal court. Sometimes its based on the most believable side.


Terry

  
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DocFrankenstein
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Sep 14, 2005 22:12 as a reply to  @ guitarman's post |  #20

guitarman wrote:
I knew you would say that. But there again such an easy thing to disprove. Just go and get estimates from 3 or more wedding photographers and see how many of them are any where near $200. The judge would see that the evidence would show what the likelihood of a photographer doing a job for that little would be. In small claims court there doesn't always have to be beyond a preponderance of a doubt like criminal court. Sometimes its based on the most believable side.

It's his first wedding... he could've charged just 200...

But then there's too much evidence against them. If you ring up the phone company, they'll give you a list of incoming/outgoing calls. You called them, they stalled.

They refused to take the pictures...

Sue them. They deserve it.


National Sarcasm Society. Like we need your support.

  
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kawter2
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Sep 14, 2005 22:17 |  #21

Store the pics in a file and then just, chalk it up to an expensive but very memrabla lesson

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS
ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS
ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS

Get 100% of the money 30 days prior to shooting a wedding.. ALWAYS!!



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Merle
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Sep 15, 2005 08:43 as a reply to  @ DocFrankenstein's post |  #22

Dubstra,

Next time the $200.00 is a deposit to hold the wedding date for the couple the balance to be paid on or before the wedding. Purchase preprinted contracts or make one up on your own.

Now, lets be business like on this. You mentioned you left messages with the babysitter. So these are either not newlyweds for the first time or they got the cart before the horse. They came home from the honeymoon and the sticker shock from the wedding expenses has overwhelmed them.
Send a non-threatening certified letter explaining that the wedding photography is ready and ask how soon they would like to complete the transaction. If they are truly overwhelmed by the cost of their wedding or they have second thoughts about the importance of the still photography,you can offer to put them on a payment plan, delivering the product only after the last payment has been made.

We must always remember that we are in the people business. Each client has their own individual set of circumstances. Based on personal experience I know our artistic pride has been dumped on, but getting tough and legal recourse should always be a last resort. When we are first starting out we want to project a positive image around our community. If this deal does go south on you and you wind up in court you will never have the opportunity to explain your side of the story to everyone that they badmouth you too. There is an old saying in the wedding business. One bad wedding will do more harm to your reputation than 10 good weddings will do to build your reputation up. ;) :) :D

Good Shooting To Ya!!
Merle




  
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Dubsta
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Sep 15, 2005 08:48 |  #23

It was not my first wedding, just one of my first...I only did about 5-6.

Anyway, thanks for the help everyone...I called back yesterday like 6 times, from my work phone and from my cell phone. NO answer, then when I called from a phone they would not recognize, the sitter answered...and she didn't seem to be too happy.

Anyway, they didn't call me back...I plan to call them every single day....I will update as it goes along.




  
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Jesper
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Sep 16, 2005 08:30 |  #24

So why don't you just go to their house, as dgcorner suggested?


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Steve ­ Parr
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Sep 16, 2005 08:45 |  #25
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If they continue to refuse to pay, shame them.

You have their pictures, so use them. Take an ad out in the local paper; maybe a half-page, and include thier picture. The text should explain exactly what happened; they're refusal to pay for your services, and the picture should be clear and the people identifiable. I wouldn't use any that are embarassing or risque; just one that clearly shows both the bride and groom.

Since they're not returning your calls, go ahead and leave a message for them informing them of your intent.

I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut you get a return call...

Steve


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guitarman
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Sep 16, 2005 08:47 as a reply to  @ Steve Parr's post |  #26

Steve Parr wrote:
If they continue to refuse to pay, shame them.

You have their pictures, so use them. Take an ad out in the local paper; maybe a half-page, and include thier picture. The text should explain exactly what happened; they're refusal to pay for your services, and the picture should be clear and the people identifiable. I wouldn't use any that are embarassing or risque; just one that clearly shows both the bride and groom.

Since they're not returning your calls, go ahead and leave a message for them informing them of your intent.

I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut you get a return call...

Steve

I doubt any paper would publish that. You can't just make those kind of accusatory claims. Or else everyone would be doing it, most just for shear spite, regardless of facts.


Terry

  
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Steve ­ Parr
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Sep 16, 2005 08:52 as a reply to  @ guitarman's post |  #27
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guitarman wrote:
I doubt any paper would publish that. You can't just make those kind of accusatory claims. Or else everyone would be doing it, most just for shear spite, regardless of facts.

Here in San Diego, we have a paper called "The Reader". It's a free weekly publication distributed all over the county. I've been stunned at some of the things I've seen in that paper. An ad with photos of a bride and groom and an explanation of the facts would be mild, and would be accepted without question...

Steve


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Dubsta
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Sep 16, 2005 09:03 |  #28

I'm the head Graphic Designer at THE local newspaper...lol...hmmm​mmm




  
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kawter2
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Sep 16, 2005 10:47 as a reply to  @ Dubsta's post |  #29

Dubsta wrote:
I'm the head Graphic Designer at THE local newspaper...lol...hmmm​mmm


[Sarcasm]
I can really tell it by the amount of professionalism you display!!!
[/sarcasm]

Serriously get over it!!! If you continue with the methods you mentioned here, You will only

*burn bridges
*ruin relationships
*ruin your name
*look like an ass
*waste time that you could have spent doing something productive for your business



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cosworth
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Sep 16, 2005 11:06 |  #30

Kawter2, Sydney is avery different than Orange County. things are just done differently there.

Professionalism should reign though. Appropriate regional tactics apply.

These are people that wanted a photographer then decided they didn't need the pictures. I'd want polaroids from my wedding. Petroglyphs would cut it. If they are unhappy with what you took and don't have any copies in their possession they will never pay and pay only by court order.

I'm looking to get married soon. June. I want good pictures. Will I be fussy? Hell yeah. Will I take my own pictures with a paid photographer. Most likely. These people sound like they just don't value the work. You'll have ot walk away from it most likely.

Use their pics as your samples and in your ads.


people will always try to stop you doing the right thing if it is unconventional
Full frame and some primes.

  
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