Computer Crossroad?

uOpt wrote in post #11861681
Thank you so much for confirming this. Until very recently I would have blindly said "graphics card doesn't matter for 2D". I had my HD-DVD revelation but it's good to see somebody else seeing this in other software.

As an ex-software engineer, I can confirm that it doesn't. 2D rendering is handled admirably by any GPU from the last 5 years, as photoshop's image calculations (like panning) are done on the CPU. Graphics drivers, however, can have a significant impact on the lag from the image being rendered by the CPU and it getting output to the monitor. Watch your GPU utilization as you go panning around photoshop to check. One significant factor in photoshop is Windows prefetch and superfetch. If you have a lot of ram (more than 4), Windows will keep your most used programs in ram to allow even faster operation by limiting disk access.

Your HD-DVD revelation relates to the fact that it takes a good amount (around 10% of my 980X, or about 40% of my old C2Q @3.3) to decode even medium-quality HD content. Most modern graphics cards (anything AMD/Nvidia from the last 3 years, anything Intel Nahalem and newer) have the ability to offload that processing to the GPU (integrated or discrete), which makes for a noticeable speedup for higher bitrate HD content, like that from an uncompressed (at least compared to .Mp4) HD-DVD disk.

Sp1207 wrote in post #11863268
As an ex-software engineer, I can confirm that it doesn't. 2D rendering is handled admirably by any GPU from the last 5 years, as photoshop's image calculations (like panning) are done on the CPU. Graphics drivers, however, can have a significant impact on the lag from the image being rendered by the CPU and it getting output to the monitor. Watch your GPU utilization as you go panning around photoshop to check. One significant factor in photoshop is Windows prefetch and superfetch. If you have a lot of ram (more than 4), Windows will keep your most used programs in ram to allow even faster operation by limiting disk access.

Your HD-DVD revelation relates to the fact that it takes a good amount (around 10% of my 980X, or about 40% of my old C2Q @3.3) to decode even medium-quality HD content. Most modern graphics cards (anything AMD/Nvidia from the last 3 years, anything Intel Nahalem and newer) have the ability to offload that processing to the GPU (integrated or discrete), which makes for a noticeable speedup for higher bitrate HD content, like that from an uncompressed (at least compared to .Mp4) HD-DVD disk.

This was using Xine and MPlayer and the drivers to offload decoding to the video card are not installed nor were Xine and MPlayer compiled with support for the API. Whatever made my HD-DVD work when I changed graphics cards (without changing the driver and without reinstalling Xine/MPlayer) was in the 2D part.

I'm telling you that pushing large amounts of pixels from an application to the screen, such as when watching at a large picture in PP when you mess around with a slider affecting every pixel is sensitive to graphics cards. Of course the GPU as such isn't involved but something in the better cards today still has more bandwidth than today's cheaper cards.

I can't understand why you suddenly bring in disk performance and prefetch???

J-Blake wrote in post #11860679
So is this the right venue to discuss virus software? I notice Windows 7 comes with it's own and it seems to be working fine. The guy at Microcenter was telling me that ESET NOD32 Antivirus 4 3-User/1-Year (PC) was the new kid on the block and better than the others. Is he full of crap, or is this good advice.

Also, can anyone recommend a video camera's? I need to buy one for me and my mother so that we can video chat. Like always, looking to find the sweet spot between performance and price.

Assuming your asking about a webcam....I think 720p for a webcam is the 'sweet spot' in terms of price, now that the 1080p cams are rolling out. Newegg has some 720p cameras from Microsoft, Logitech, and Creative in the $30-40. All three are pretty good brands. I have a 3+ year Logitech (480p...I think) on my desktop, but I don't think I've used it in over a year. Most video conference chatting I do now is through my Macbook (for work) or Skype (for family calls).

As for virus software....what your Microcenter guy says is half-true. It's not exactly the 'new kid of the block' -- they've been around since the 90's. But in terms of virus software market share, they have gained steadily against the bigger guys over the past 5 or 6 years. I first used Nod32 back in 2004, when I still had an XP Pro system in my arsenal....and it was an excellent antivirus package. More recently, I've seen and heard more ads for their software on tech-related blogs and the like....so it will be curious to see what happens as they get bigger.

ESET's strength has been their ability to offer excellent protection in a minimally-invasive package, contra the more leading brands like Norton or McAfee that grew and grew in size, to the point where they became too bloated. This was a big deal just a few years ago -- we all remember the days when we were running our Pentium 4's, the antivirus scan would kick in, and the whole system would grind to a snail's pace! The new multicore systems solve that problem, and your new Sandy Bridge shouldn't have too much trouble doing a scan while you are working in Photoshop, even if using a bloatware package like Norton. Still, ESET was *great* in that it didn't drain many system resources, even doing basic protection stuff; I think the same still holds for the current generation of Nod32 as well.

Most reviews I've seen rank it very high amongst the non-free softwares. I know I've thought about buying it a couple of times, and if I ever have a problem with Microsoft Essential's, Nod32 would be the first software I purchased as a replacement (on Win 7 machine).

If you are careful about what you click on while web browsing, my hunch is Microsoft Essentials would *probably* be sufficient. It has been for me so far (after about 14 months on my i7 system) -- updates and scans are virtually silent in the background, it's done a good job catching 3 or 4 malware junk, and the software hasn't become bloated yet.

Thanks Matt. I did mean webcam. I'll look for a 720p in the brands you mentioned. The main use of this will be for Skype. I used it for the first time the other day and spoke to a buddy in Australia who had video on his Macbook. I was pleasantly surprised how well it worked.

I guess new kid on the block is relative. Certainly compared to the bloated pair you mentioned. My wife and daughter are running HP Laptops which are running minimal configurations so the idea of minimally invasive protection will go a long way with those systems.

J-Blake wrote in post #11866799
I guess new kid on the block is relative. Certainly compared to the bloated pair you mentioned. My wife and daughter are running HP Laptops which are running minimal configurations so the idea of minimally invasive protection will go a long way with those systems.

The 3-computer ESET license is actually a nice deal, especially if you buy the 2-year version. Comes out pretty cheap! Check online for some deals, as they have promo codes floating around all the time for discounts. The software is not that big so you can download it anyhow.

Thanks I'll see if I can find any.

***** Update*****

Just installed my new mobo so figured I'd bring you guys up to speed.

Microcenter offered the replacement board which I swapped out this weekend. I ended up with the same board I originally bought which is an ASUS P8H67-M PRO. The swap went fine, except for one quirk which keeps popping up. My Realtek audio software keeps popping up every 5 minutes or so with an error message that speakers have been unplugged. I uninstalled/reinstalle​d the latest drivers but it continues to happen. I called ASUS and they're telling me to reinstall Windows 7. Does this sound viable? I dread having to go through that again. I was thinking of trying a repair install, but they are warning me against it.

J-Blake wrote in post #12289679
Microcenter offered the replacement board which I swapped out this weekend. I ended up with the same board I originally bought which is an ASUS P8H67-M PRO. The swap went fine, except for one quirk which keeps popping up. My Realtek audio software keeps popping up every 5 minutes or so with an error message that speakers have been unplugged. I uninstalled/reinstalle​d the latest drivers but it continues to happen. I called ASUS and they're telling me to reinstall Windows 7. Does this sound viable? I dread having to go through that again. I was thinking of trying a repair install, but they are warning me against it.

Can't recall ever seeing something like this before!!

Just so I understand....the board prior to current one was the 'original' ASUS P8H67-M Pro board that had the faulty SATA issue, correct? And so all you did was swap the 'old' ASUS for the 'new' ASUS boards, correct? But as far as specs go, they are the SAME board (minus the SATA problem), correct?

If the sound worked perfectly fine with the old board....and now you replace it with the EXACT SAME spec'd board, and it doesn't work -- that to me doesn't sound like a Windows problem but a hardware problem on the new board.

IOW, if the board swap has the same audio hardware as the previous board, AND the audio worked fine on the previous board, then it should work fine on the new board!

Man, sorry you are getting such a run-around on this build. Seems like you can't buy anything without some new issue sufficing!

BeritOlam wrote in post #12297070
Can't recall ever seeing something like this before!!

Just so I understand....the board prior to current one was the 'original' ASUS P8H67-M Pro board that had the faulty SATA issue, correct? And so all you did was swap the 'old' ASUS for the 'new' ASUS boards, correct? But as far as specs go, they are the SAME board (minus the SATA problem), correct?

All correct.

BeritOlam wrote in post #12297070
If the sound worked perfectly fine with the old board....and now you replace it with the EXACT SAME spec'd board, and it doesn't work -- that to me doesn't sound like a Windows problem but a hardware problem on the new board.

I'm with you. It sounded like a load of crap to me, but it's hard to argue with them. I may call back to get another tech support person and see what they say.

BeritOlam wrote in post #12297070
IOW, if the board swap has the same audio hardware as the previous board, AND the audio worked fine on the previous board, then it should work fine on the new board!

That's what I would have thought. I'm just a layman, but this makes sense. Plus the fact that I downloaded their latest drivers and reinstalled them with the same result.

BeritOlam wrote in post #12297070
Man, sorry you are getting such a run-around on this build. Seems like you can't buy anything without some new issue sufficing!

Yep, just my luck. I guess my options at this point are to:
- Talk to another ASUS tech support rep. and get a second opinion.
- Talk to Microcenter and swap out for another board.
- Try a repair install of Windows.
- Bite the bullet and do a full reinstall.

Since it's already almost May I'm going to wait for an ECC-enabled Sandy Bridge.

Have you suckers find more SATA bugs before I jump

uOpt wrote in post #12297823
Have you suckers find more SATA bugs before I jump

That's what I want to hear....thanks Martin


I spoke to ASUS tech support again, and this rep seemed worse than the other. Unfortunatlely, she's got the notes made by the previous call and insisted the next step is to replace the OS until I told her that it will be a lot less effort on my part if I reswap out the mobo again. Then she came up with resetting the bios and if that doesn't work, flashing it. From my perspective, I think restting the bios sounds easy enough and if it doesn't work I'll swap the mobo next. If the problem persists after that, then maybe I'll take their OS suggestion more seriously.

I'm still inclined to think it's a hardware issue....and ASUS is just blowing some serious smoke your way. Which is unfortunate, because they use to be THE class among mobo manufacturers. But this kind of crap is becoming more of an issue lately, which is a bummer.

Reinstalling the OS might be easier than going back and swapping boards, but I still think I might try the later before the former!

Final update (hopefully).

I swapped out the mobo Saturday which appears to have corrected the problem as everything is working fine. I also added another 8 gig RAM while I was there which really seems to have taken the performance up a notch. It was a frustratingly long journey, but at least I made it! Thanks to those who helped along the way.