Center point with fast primes: Crop or recompose?

One of the very first things I was told when I picked up one of my first ultra-fast primes was to never, ever, EVER recompose a shot. Terribly unforgiving, back-button focus, and all that. OK, got it.

Then, of course, I get home and realize that I want to compose a shot differently, and rely on the not-so-hot outer AF points on my 5D2. This has resulted in a really low keeper rate, even lower than my fast-prime keeper rate with using the center point (I've got a LOT of refining to do when it comes to technique, and I recognize this is magnified when shooting at f/1.2-1.4).

So for all the fast prime shooters, how do you do it? Shoot center point and re-compose the image by cropping, or do you re-compose the shot, accepting that the old adage about never recomposing when shooting a fast prime wide open is a load of crap?

My solution was to get a 1D Mark III (which I bought used after the 5D II was announced and I realized that my issue with the 5D was not being addressed).

Later I got a 1D Mark IV.

I still have my 5D and I do use it at f/2.8 to f/2 but I expect a reduction in hit rate. When the 5D was my only camera I really avoided shooting below f/2 as the hit rate got to be too low.

And no - I generally do not recompose shots. If I'm needed off center composition then I use the 1D and a slightly wider focal length.

Back in the day when shooting 6x6 and 6x7 I was taught to shoot "loose" to allow for cropping. I would imagine with the large files the 5D2 produces, that a bit of cropping would result in little loss of quality.

And what does this have to do with primes? Shouldn't it be with large f-stops?

flowrider wrote in post #11758686
And what does this have to do with primes? Shouldn't it be with large f-stops?

Well, yeah, hence the "fast primes" part.

That is one of the nice things about the huge images the 5D2 cranks out--you can crop up to 50% and still have a very usable image, even for an 8x10 or larger print.

So, I shoot using the outer points with the 5D Classic a lot, and have gotten fine results. I'm curious as to your lack of keepers -- could it just be from camera movement? That's the most logical cause I can think of. You do get a focus lock/confirmation, right?

You might want to test things out by setting up a tripod and trying this. Movement at wide apertures is a big problem and it takes real practice to nail shots hand held. Yes with practice you can develop some good techniques but it will take patience and you will still not have as high a keeper rate.

But to really analyze your outer points performance, test them on a tripod in good light on a contrasty subject (that makes a difference -- they are not cross-type so can be picky as to what they focus on). Using the self-timer or a remote release with mirror lockup could minimize movement as well. Also use One shot AF to cut out the gueswork that AI Servo might lead to.

Doing this type of test should tell you whether the problem is the outer points or your movement!

Of course, in lower light I'd tend to switch to the center point and not necessarily shoot wide open on a fast prime to get some wiggle-room for some amount of recomposing. You just have to get a feel of things as you go.

Here are the type of shenannigans I get with the 5D outer points. This shot was taken using the 5D and the uppermost focus point was placed directly on the subjects left eye (on your right). The full shot is croppped a bit too so the placement of the AF point is not totally clear.

As you can see, the actual plane of focus was about 10mm too far back. 85mm @ f/2.

You can also see that f/2 was too big of an aperture for this shot anyway - so this is just for illustration purposes. I should have shot this type of framing at f/4. This shot dates from my 'all shallow DOF shots are good shots' era. I'd never use such a fast aperture for a waist up shot now.

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.

Don't discount manual focus with the appropriate focusing screen.

oldvultureface wrote in post #11759102
Don't discount manual focus with the appropriate focusing screen.

That's a good point. For non-moving/slow-moving subjects I've been practicing with the Eg-S screen and getting decent results. Are there any 3rd-party screens that you'd recommend?

tonylong wrote in post #11758915
So, I shoot using the outer points with the 5D Classic a lot, and have gotten fine results. I'm curious as to your lack of keepers -- could it just be from camera movement? That's the most logical cause I can think of. You do get a focus lock/confirmation, right?

You might want to test things out by setting up a tripod and trying this. Movement at wide apertures is a big problem and it takes real practice to nail shots hand held. Yes with practice you can develop some good techniques but it will take patience and you will still not have as high a keeper rate.

But to really analyze your outer points performance, test them on a tripod in good light on a contrasty subject (that makes a difference -- they are not cross-type so can be picky as to what they focus on). Using the self-timer or a remote release with mirror lockup could minimize movement as well. Also use One shot AF to cut out the gueswork that AI Servo might lead to.

Doing this type of test should tell you whether the problem is the outer points or your movement!

Of course, in lower light I'd tend to switch to the center point and not necessarily shoot wide open on a fast prime to get some wiggle-room for some amount of recomposing. You just have to get a feel of things as you go.

Well, I've tried the tripod thing, and while I'll freely admit to some movement under some conditions, there are times when the AF just flat-out misses at the outer points. So it's a combination of things.

I tend to use One Shot AF for most shots and I do get a focus confirmation--after all, if I don't the camera won't let me shoot.

f/1.2 is cool, but it really is quite unforgiving for camera and photographer alike--that's why I want to use center point. It'll at least help increase the AF accuracy on the camera end, and I'm trying to figure out if re-framing or cropping is the way to go.

flowrider wrote in post #11758686
Back in the day when shooting 6x6 and 6x7 I was taught to shoot "loose" to allow for cropping. I would imagine with the large files the 5D2 produces, that a bit of cropping would result in little loss of quality.

And what does this have to do with primes? Shouldn't it be with large f-stops?

The 5D2 files are large, and do allow shooting "loose" for cropping. But if the lighting is reasonably good, you can select other AF points as well. Recomposing at really large apertures brings a higher risk of slightly out-of-focus images.

Dr.Pete wrote in post #11759199
Are there any 3rd-party screens that you'd recommend?

I've only read about them. They usually require exposure compensation and I'm too old to memorize all the adjustments. Happy with the Canon screen.

Try manual focus. You may be surprised.

Man I wish I could manually focus with anything close to the speed and accuracy that the camera has in autofocus. Yes, I can do it with live view at 10X, if I take my time, but people aren't going to hold still for 3 minutes to allow me to focus.

Just don't have the eyes for it, I guess.

flowrider wrote in post #11758686
Back in the day when shooting 6x6 and 6x7 I was taught to shoot "loose" to allow for cropping. I would imagine with the large files the 5D2 produces, that a bit of cropping would result in little loss of quality.

And what does this have to do with primes? Shouldn't it be with large f-stops?

Steve,, this.. I also did the same with 35mm for obvious reasons..

I shoot mainly street candids in low light/high ISO using a 135L or EF 50mm f/1.4.. I shoot a little loose so I can crop into the image if I need to..

Now,, I'm querrying why centre point focus?? Why not use the other points as well?? I always move the focus points around onto an important part of the subject,,the eyes..

If the object is static, recompose won't change the focus. But if the object is moving, I always crop for the correct composition.