Help printing them

Ok, I'll start by saying I'm an absolute noob

I just got T2i and I've been taking some great pictures, even amazed at myself. But when it comes to printing them - I hit a wall. Here is my equipment:

T2i with 50mm 1.8
27" Samsing HD monitor
Canon Pixma 9000 Pro Mark II

My problem - the pictures come out too dark! As in overall dark, not under-exposed. AND I know it's not calibration or lighting problem. The pictures look great on both my computer and on the camera LCD (I shoot RAW+JPEG) but the bigegst proof (to me) that it's not calibration - a piece of background pink furniture shows as pink on my PC, but almost purple on the picture I print, a light-brown wall prints as dark-brown wall, etc.

What I've tried so far - print with the Canon software (with manual color adjustment, no color adjustment) print with Photoshop, let Photoshop decide the colors, btw Phhotoshop turns out the worst pictures

So, the Canon software (DPP) comes the closest to printing the picture, but again - too dark. I don't know what to do, it seems that post-processing will not do the trick, because the pictures look amazing with spot-on colors right out of the camera, yet the printer prints them too dark.

Could anyone help, I am at my wits' end!

atlrus wrote in post #11763249
Ok, I'll start by saying I'm an absolute noob ...

...My problem - the pictures come out too dark!...

...AND I know it's not calibration or lighting problem...

Start by testing your printer by printing a standard test image and allow the printer to handle the color management.

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk …le_pages/test_i​mages.html

Then read this:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com …_my_prints_too_​dark.shtml

Turn down the brightness of your monitor, adjust an image at that level, try a print!

tonylong wrote in post #11763547
Turn down the brightness of your monitor, adjust an image at that level, try a print!

But see, it's not the monitor's brightness. I have a picture with a pink chair in the background, the chair shows pink on my PC monitor and in real life, but when I print it - the chair appears purple...if I adjust the monitor brightness I will have "two wrongs", i.e. a pink chair will show purple on both the monitor and the printed picture, which is not what I'm after

atlrus wrote in post #11763727
But see, it's not the monitor's brightness. I have a picture with a pink chair in the background, the chair shows pink on my PC monitor and in real life, but when I print it - the chair appears purple...if I adjust the monitor brightness I will have "two wrongs", i.e. a pink chair will show purple on both the monitor and the printed picture, which is not what I'm after

Until the monitor is hardware calibrated and you are viewing the image within a color smart application, you can't trust your eyes.

Next... you need to review each step of your print workflow. Do you have Preview before Printing enabled or disabled? This is a common cause of color shifts with Canon printers. It should be disabled (unchecked).

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRINT/CP9​KII/PRO9K2.HTM

atlrus wrote in post #11763727
But see, it's not the monitor's brightness. I have a picture with a pink chair in the background, the chair shows pink on my PC monitor and in real life, but when I print it - the chair appears purple...if I adjust the monitor brightness I will have "two wrongs", i.e. a pink chair will show purple on both the monitor and the printed picture, which is not what I'm after

I know some of this stuff isn't easy to get your head wrapped around at first but please take some time and follow what Chas is saying it'll save you some cash and lots of stress.

Your printer can and will produce as fine a looking print that you'll see from most all of the high end labs. For just starting out make sure you have 4" X 6" paper to work/test with. If you don't have that size on hand then cut what you have, it'll save you a ton while you get things sorted out. There is plenty of help here. I use the same printer and trust me the prints are magical!

atlrus wrote in post #11763727
But see, it's not the monitor's brightness. I have a picture with a pink chair in the background, the chair shows pink on my PC monitor and in real life, but when I print it - the chair appears purple...if I adjust the monitor brightness I will have "two wrongs", i.e. a pink chair will show purple on both the monitor and the printed picture, which is not what I'm after

OK, if you turn your monitor down to match the print, then adjust your image brightness to match "real", then guess what? You will get a print that will match real!

Just know that we get "tricked" in three important ways: First, monitors out of the factory are cranked way too bright so we are tricked into processing images that will be too dark for printing and for people who are viewing using a properly adjusted monitor. Second, ambient light tricks us -- having bright lights in your computer room will make your over-bright monitor look fine. Third, and this is important, ambient light is not necessarily the best viewing conditions for a print. Ideally, you should have dim neutral light for using your monitor and pretty bright neutral light for viewing your print so that the ambient light will both bring out the tones properly without casting an "artificial light" on the print.

These are things we all have to deal with, common challenges. Follow the pointers you've gotten on calibration and color management and you'll get there in time. Top-of-the-line calibrators will actually include brightness adjustments as part of their routine, or at least decent calibration software will give you a read-out of brightness that can guide you in making manual adjustments.

atlrus pm sent.

So basically you are saying that my camera is taking bad pictures? Again, noob here, but I don't see how the monitor could play any role in my case since I didn't make any adjustment to the picture - I simply open the JPEG and print it. And since the JPEG is a data file, i.e. series of 0s and 1s, I understand how different monitor settings can make the image display different, but the actual data remains the same (since I don't adjust the image at all).

Sooooo, if the 0s and 1s "describe" a pink chair, yet the printer comes out with a purple one there are 2 possible scenarios:

1. The data file actually "describes" a purple chair. I don't think this is the case. Everyone agrees that the T2i should take better picures than a point-and-shoot camera. Not to mention that it would be really insane to spend $1000 on a camera just so I end up adjusting every single picture.

2. I have (not) turned on some setting and that makes the printer translate the pink chair in the data file to purple one. I think this is my problem and I was hoping for an easy solution, i.e. me being the noob I've missed some setting that a pro guy would think of right away. I can mess with the settings of the printer, but the problem here is that I have no idea what I'm doing, for example, I have no idea what's the difference between the Driver Matching and ICM...

P.S. I am talking about a pink vs purple chair as to show you how dark the picture prints. It's not a spesific color but the entire picture is darker than it should be.

There's allot to it and it does take some understanding. I'll try to get a good print with you and we'll try using photo shop to get it done but first I need to know a few things.
What paper are you using to print on?
What are the working color setting set to in photo shop?
What color space is your T2i set to?
what size print will we be using to test with?
Do you know the basics of photo shop?
I will be headed to bed here soon tonight but with this info we can make a day of it tomorrow. We'll take it one step at a time and get it right. Oh and it will be very rare to not adjust and image made if you want it right, meaning with your artistic views?

That would be awesome, thanks for the help!!!

What paper are you using to print on? - Canon Pro Platinum
What are the working color setting set to in photo shop? - RGB Color, 8bits
What color space is your T2i set to? - sRGB
what size print will we be using to test with? - 4x6
Do you know the basics of photo shop? - I can do basic picture manipulation, such as crop, stamp, erase, layers, filters etc, but this is my first time venturing into colors or printing from Photoshop

Thanks again, lookign forward to getting this thing done

I have two suggestions:
1. Post here a photo that printed dark, preferably straight from the camera without postprocessing, and with Exif intact. There are many viewers with calibrated monitors and color managed browsers who will be able to tell you how they see the image. Either resize it to around 600x900 pixels or crop out a representative area of that size. Alternatively, you could upload the original file to Yousendit, list yourself as the recipient of the link and post the link here.
2. Download a printer test page and print it. That will take the camera and your postprocessing out of the equation. Here is a good one:
http://www.digitaldog.​net/tips/index.shtml

atlrus wrote in post #11766499
So basically you are saying that my camera is taking bad pictures? Again, noob here, but I don't see how the monitor could play any role in my case since I didn't make any adjustment to the picture - I simply open the JPEG and print it. And since the JPEG is a data file, i.e. series of 0s and 1s, I understand how different monitor settings can make the image display different, but the actual data remains the same (since I don't adjust the image at all).

Sooooo, if the 0s and 1s "describe" a pink chair, yet the printer comes out with a purple one there are 2 possible scenarios:

1. The data file actually "describes" a purple chair. I don't think this is the case. Everyone agrees that the T2i should take better picures than a point-and-shoot camera. Not to mention that it would be really insane to spend $1000 on a camera just so I end up adjusting every single picture.

2. I have (not) turned on some setting and that makes the printer translate the pink chair in the data file to purple one. I think this is my problem and I was hoping for an easy solution, i.e. me being the noob I've missed some setting that a pro guy would think of right away. I can mess with the settings of the printer, but the problem here is that I have no idea what I'm doing, for example, I have no idea what's the difference between the Driver Matching and ICM...

P.S. I am talking about a pink vs purple chair as to show you how dark the picture prints. It's not a spesific color but the entire picture is darker than it should be.

So, you could ask me: do I ever underexpose shots? And the answer would be yes, although on a bright monitor that wouldn't register. You can take a stab using the histogram, though -- if your histogram is centered with a healthy amount toward the right and nothing bunched up against the left/dark side then it should be OK. Have you checked your histogram to check your exposure? It's easy for the camera meter to get "fooled" into either under- or over-exposing.

tzalman wrote in post #11768081
I have two suggestions:
1. Post here a photo that printed dark, preferably straight from the camera without postprocessing, and with Exif intact. There are many viewers with calibrated monitors and color managed browsers who will be able to tell you how they see the image. Either resize it to around 600x900 pixels or crop out a representative area of that size. Alternatively, you could upload the original file to Yousendit, list yourself as the recipient of the link and post the link here.
2. Download a printer test page and print it. That will take the camera and your postprocessing out of the equation. Here is a good one:
http://www.digitaldog.​net/tips/index.shtml

I agree with all of that.

For us, post a good-sized copy of an out-of-the-camera pic that prints dark. We can take a look at it and maybe help some more.

atlrus wrote in post #11767833
That would be awesome, thanks for the help!!!

What paper are you using to print on? - Canon Pro Platinum
What are the working color setting set to in photo shop? - RGB Color, 8bitsWhat color space is your T2i set to? - sRGB
what size print will we be using to test with? - 4x6
Do you know the basics of photo shop? - I can do basic picture manipulation, such as crop, stamp, erase, layers, filters etc, but this is my first time venturing into colors or printing from Photoshop

Thanks again, lookign forward to getting this thing done

I had hoped you were using the Photo Paper Pluss Glossy II because I know the results using it but it really shouldn't matter.
Below is a pic of where the color settings are, what are your set to now?
Please if you would crop a section of the image with the pink chair and post it here both pre and post print. It would be a great help for us to see the results you are getting now.

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OK, I don't think printing through Photoshop would do the trick - the picture is looking even worse than using the Canon software. Here is a comparison, I hope you'll be able to see (histogram included in the corner):

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