How much for a print? RIP-OFF!!!

I don't often rant, but sometimes when people say your profession is a scam, you just want to educate them.

What do you guys think? Many of you probably put up with this all the time yes?

Baz.

How much for a print? RIP-OFF!

A question photographers are often asked and find themselves constantly having to justify or quantify, the answer. Many, if not all photographers have to put up with this.
Question: How much for a print?
Usual answer: $$$
Usual rebuttal: 1. Why would I pay for something I can do myself? 2. Why so much, that's a lot, I could take my own picture for nothing.
Usual counter rebuttal: 1. Have you ever paid for a sandwich or cup of coffee? 2. Go right ahead. Seeya. Have fun.
Remember, what you are paying for really, is art. If it appeals to you, then how do you put a price on that? If you think it's too much, then it's probably not for you. Imagine if the great painting artists out there only charged to cover the cost of canvas and paint.
Let's take a moment to capture the real costs of obtaining a photograph from start to finish. You may find it surprising, you may not. This is based on a typical style of photography - wildlife. Much of the same things apply to any kind of photography, minus the specific items for particular tasks.
Wildlife/landscapes/na​ture:
Costs: camera equipment, vehicle to get to the location, petrol, food and drink for the duration of the shoot, which can be a whole day to a week at times. Possibly return visits many times to get the desired shot. Alternative transport and equipment, especially into remote areas, e.g. kayak, life jacket, paddle, emergency rescue beacon, backpack, shelter, first aid and survival equipment, protective and waterproofing gear, liability insurance premiums for doing commercial photography in government national parks, computer hardware and software to edit and store photographs, business website subscription, client phone expenses, loss of income (time) from a regular job in order to go out and get the photos in the first place, printing, mats and mounts, framing, labor on mounting and presentation, postage or personal delivery, advertising stationary e.g business cards, business registration, bookkeeping/accountant​s, advertising signage for vehicle, photography courses, wear and tear/maintenance on vehicle hardware and equipment. Years of time, effort, dedication, sacrifice and persistence to acquire enough skill to be considered good enough to sell work.
A lot of professions get paid danger money if the hazards justify it. Is the danger associated with getting into remote areas worth anything? Falling, exposure, snake bite. There are big risks in going to places to get images of things not able to be photographed anywhere else.
Sure, there may be little hidden costs missed, but hopefully the picture is clear. Most of these costs have real dollar costs associated with them, some have not. I have certainly gained a new appreciation for why seemingly simple things cost so much over the years.
A simple wedding requires the photographer to be Johnny-on-the-spot for the entire day, which is exhausting! "Look, there are people coming in over there, there's going to be hugs over here, where is the light, where do I have to be?" Anticipate, intercept. You can't go to the toilet, go out to your car to get a jacket because you are cold, stop for food. Well, you can, but you might miss the crucial shots! If you do a bad job, word gets out fast! After the event, there may be five to eight hundred images to take home, short-list, process, print, album, etc etc. The process can take a couple of weeks or more! How much do you get paid for two weeks? Are you worth it? How much does a skilled tradie get paid for two weeks? Is a professional photographer with the skills worth it? Would you work for less than you are worth or your time or skill level is worth?
So, when someone says that a photograph or photography service is a rip-off, or a scam, perhaps they might not appreciate the real cost involved in acquiring it. Hopefully education in this regard will lessen the number of insinuations of being worth less than what it is.
Sure, there may be photographers out there who will do it for less, there are others who charge staggering amounts more and don't really do a much better job. Some do. That's fine, if one can get what one wants for less great! That's what competition is all about! But please, spare a thought for what goes on behind the scenes for a seemingly simple service or product, before inadvertently insulting someone just trying to make an honest quid.

I'm a very young professional and I shoot nightlife on the regular. I have this one promoter who asked me to cover an event for him...he said he'd pay me $50 from 10-2. In nicer words I told him he was out of his mind... he then said...how much do you normally get paid. I quoted him $50 an hour... he literally just looked at me and said..."Really?" I offered him to have me there for 2 hours, if my rate was too high. In that amount of time I can pretty much cover any regular event ..he then said, "no, i want you here from 10-2..." If the city you live in is anything like mine. People dont show up till 12-12:30... There are always people who think they can A. Do your job better than you. and B. save money doing it. and C. convince you that your value is not what you think it is. I know my value, I'm sure you do too.

A.S.I.G.N. Observatory wrote in post #11793739
I don't often rant, but sometimes when people say your profession is a scam, you just want to educate them.

What do you guys think? Many of you probably put up with this all the time yes?

Baz.

Here's my two cents.

While what you say is true, the problem is: Nobody cares about that.

They only care if what they see you can produce is what they really want and are willing to pay for.

I've heard it from prints to licensing, it happens all the time. Have to learn immediately that most of the time you hear no, sometimes it's a yes and those are who you concentrate on.

About a yr ago I ran into more and more people telling me to crank my prices, around about the time I also examined my business in depth and realized I was priced too cheap to make a living, so one day I did and I sold a lot more..... Funny people. I never got one of those rants again from someone who knew who I was.

It's all about targeting your market. You're not a commodity, competing with walmart, you're a luxury retailer. Essentially it doesn't matter what you price yourself at, someone in the market to buy doesn't care what the price is - when they want it they want it and what they want is what they get.

Do not waste your time trying to educate people who cannot afford you up down or no matter however way you put it. It's a waste of time.

A.S.I.G.N. Observatory wrote in post #11793739
I don't often rant, but sometimes when people say your profession is a scam, you just want to educate them.

What do you guys think? Many of you probably put up with this all the time yes?

Baz.

Here's my two cents.

Unfortunately, if I was a consumer of your goods, I really don't give a rat's ass how much money or danger pay you had to spend on getting the shot. All I care is about the shot. If I like it, AND it is different than what I could get elsewhere for less, then I will buy it. If on the other hand, there are tons of photos out there just like yours for cheaper...guess where I am going to be spending my money.

It is only YOU that needs to worry about your costs. I am not there to make your business a success. I am there looking after my own interests.

Valid points all, and no surprise.

Thanks for your input folks.

Baz.

Yeah I don't go through that much hassle or expense for my photos but I'm still not cheap. If anyone **** I tell them point blank that I charge what I charge because I like money as much as they do.

A coustomer does not care a flying rats hairy behind on your costs, time, travel, equipment, education, matching socks, employees, marketing, branding, or anything else that is required to run your business. They know they can go to Costco and pay $.13 cents for a 4X6. So if you are selling them on prints, then yes you need to justify it a bit, but keep in mind the customer does not care about your justifications.

If you are selling your vision of the subject that cant be found anywhere else then there is no justification needed. It is either buy it or move along. If you can hand the customer something that nobody else can give them, they will pay without hesitation. But if you can barely surpass what they shot on thier own last weekend. You might be in trouble.

I usually use the CD analogy (although CD's are a dying breed). You pay the $15 or $16 not for the 25 cent disc but for what's on it.

My daughter was helping me hang some of my images in a pizza shop last week and made the comment on my prices...out loud mind you (she's 9)
"You charge that much for a photograph"...of course there were some customers in the place at the time...my response "Yes, because I get it"...and I actually do so no fibs there

Ive gotten to the point now, if somebody questions the price then they are simply looking for a bargin and I dont worry about them. If they like it & want it, they pay the listed price no questions asked..An my policy is, if the image keeps selling than the price steadily goes up, I want to give the earlier purchasers a sense of value..they paid $$ and now it sells for $$$...now their purchase has some investment value..

Now to be honest when I first started selling 2 years ago, I had overpriced my stuff, I went to a few art fairs and saw what they were pricing their stuff & priced mine accordingly...forgot that without some sort of name recognition its not that easy. So I lowered my prices and started selling, and am slowly moving back up to my original starting price point...live & learn

A client complained about prices to a friend of mine, a seasoned professional, asking him something to the effect of "how long did it take you to take that picture"?

My friend replied "my whole life".

tomj wrote in post #11801091
A client complained about prices to a friend of mine, a seasoned professional, asking him something to the effect of "how long did it take you to take that picture"?

My friend replied "my whole life".

That's like Picasso's response to the price he charged for a quick portrait sketch on a napkin.

I think those types of responses come across as arrogant and only serve to alienate people even further. So now you don't just charge too much, you're also a c*ck.

As has been stated, unless you were commissioned by a client to go there and get the shot you can't expect to bill for it. The market will decide the value of your work. However, you can set your prices and see what happens.
If you think you handle a lot of hagglers, you should try running an auto shop .
Not every customer that haggles should be passed over. This is one of the most annoying misconceptions I see with small business people. In many cultures it would be insulting not to try to haggle the merchant. Negotiating is called an art for a reason. I never pay full price for any of my larger purchases (obviously I don't try and haggle the gas station clerk for a few cents discount)
Try and remember these things:
Never be above working out a deal with a customer. If this means you have to price in a modest discount so be it. My wife and I buy all the art for our home at art shows and we always negotiate. If the artist isn't willing to work with us, we simply walk away. A savvy art buyer will never let you know what they can afford, they will make you feel like you are just out of reach, but they really want the piece.
Some people really are totally clueless. These people often don't mean any harm but are just totally clueless about art. Taking the time to educate them about your work may be rewarding for both of you. Try this for example: explain the composition of the piece, and why it was composed that way. Explain how certain elements of the piece are situated so that they compel the eye to move around the photo in a certain path. Then watch them look at the picture a second time and see that you are right. Give them some history of the shot and location. Tell them about the trip. Get them involved in the work. If they still don't see it as being worth more than a picture of the local park they snapped with their iPhone then at least you've tried. Learn to see these customers as education opportunities and not roadblocks.
Some people may see the value in the image but still not understand the cost. They get the cost of paint and sculpture but since they can buy their prints at Costco for far less they have a hard time justifying the expense. These people need to be sold on the value of the product as well as the value of the image itself. They may legitimately want the work but find it tough to justify the price. Bear in mind that people don't want to admit they can't afford something, and will instead try to rationalize why the product isn't worth the asking price (sometimes they're right).
Some customers just don't get it because they simply can't afford it. They may take a hostile attitude towards expensive luxury items as a means of validating themselves. (let's face it, photography is a luxury item) These people can be tough nuts to crack and may simply not be worth it, but I still would be as diplomatic as possible when handling them.
One thing to remember is that people often try to present a false image of who they are when they are buying. Poor people try to convince people they have more money than they do and wealthier people try to play poor. Just a few rambling thoughts.