How much for a print? RIP-OFF!!!

cdifoto wrote in post #11801605
I think those types of responses come across as arrogant and only serve to alienate people even further. So now you don't just charge too much, you're also a c*ck.

exactly.

Scatterbrained wrote in post #11801630
As has been stated, unless you were commissioned by a client to go there and get the shot you can't expect to bill for it.

If by "bill" you actually just mean "charge" as in sell, you're quite wrong on that. You just can't expect certain people to not question your price, but that applies to commissioned work too. Some people question these things and try to haggle, others don't go for it at all, while others still don't question it and jump right in.

My justification for my prices is a simple "I like money." Whether that's sufficient depends on the person asking me to justify them.

I suggest that people stop thinking in terms of "it's my art so I don't have to justify it" and instead realize that some people do need to be told why a price is what it is. Greed can be a good enough answer...as long as you don't actually use that word.

cdifoto wrote in post #11801658
If by "bill" you actually just mean "charge" as in sell, you're quite wrong on that. You just can't expect certain people to not question your price, but that applies to commissioned work too. Some people question these things and try to haggle, others don't go for it at all, while others still don't question it and jump right in.

My justification for my prices is a simple "I like money." Whether that's sufficient depends on the person asking me to justify them.

I suggest that people stop thinking in terms of "it's my art so I don't have to justify it" and instead realize that some people do need to be told why a price is what it is. Greed can be a good enough answer...as long as you don't actually use that word.

Let me give you an example from my personal experience to elucidate my point. If I go out myself and purchase a 56 MB 220sb and restore it; when I sell it I will only be able to get what the market will carry for the car. This price will be determined partially by going rates at auctions and in private sales as well as current up or down trends in the market as a whole. However, if a client comes to me and asks me to find the car, buy it and restore it; the cost to the client will be for locating the car, buying the car, transporting the car, and restoring the car. The two can be (and have been) wildly different.

Scatterbrained wrote in post #11801719
Let me give you an example from my personal experience to elucidate my point. If I go out myself and purchase a 56 MB 220sb and restore it; when I sell it I will only be able to get what the market will carry for the car. This price will be determined partially by going rates at auctions and in private sales as well as current up or down trends in the market as a whole. However, if a client comes to me and asks me to find the car, buy it and restore it; the cost to the client will be for locating the car, buying the car, transporting the car, and restoring the car. The two can be (and have been) wildly different.

That's true for your example, I'll give you that. Vehicle restoration is an odd thing though. Damn near everything else on this planet is priced to make someone a profit...even toilet paper. If you look at your photography as a commodity, you can still profit from it whether it was commissioned or not.

cdifoto wrote in post #11801847
That's true for your example, I'll give you that. Vehicle restoration is an odd thing though. Damn near everything else on this planet is priced to make someone a profit...even toilet paper. If you look at your photography as a commodity, you can still profit from it whether it was commissioned or not.

I never said you couldn't, just that the pricing dynamics are different.

If you have to explain why you charge money to anyone, then the person you're talking to is not a prospect. Move on.

That is true with any professional service.

People move up this ladder:
1. Suspect
2. Prospect
3. Proposal
4. Contract
5. Customer (fulfillment/service execution)
6. Referral

The vast majority of suspects never become prospects. I'd say over 90%.

The best question you could ask any suspect is:
(a) What is your budget for the event?
(b) What coverage do you require?

Very old rule of thumb in sales -- If there is no project budget, there will be no sale.

Be nice to everybody, but waste as little time as possible.

(FWIW -- I just own a company, we don't do photography)

I photographed little league football (sports action) this past fall and what I find is some people (parents in my case) are just cheap. I was told my prices were $1 or $2 more (than one of the parents even though the kids looked like ants and were unrecognizable in the photos and the quality did not match mine, but it did not matter because it was cheaper. My prices were well within the prices in the area; not high and not low. Then there’s the parent who recognized quality and did not even question my prices; she just wanted to know my payment method and how long it would take to get the photos. As a matter of fact, she stated just the opposite as the other parents who thought the prices were too high; she acknowledge the quality photos as did other parents, but some just won’t give up that money. Then there were the parents that wanted to negotiate. I stated my prices are my prices – basically take or leave it; some took, some did not. LIFE.

But this is the granddaddy of them all and gets me smiling: I sometimes hear this, I can have a 4x6 printed for $.13 (an arbitrary price), but then I say to them, you need an image to print and that's not free. I’m willing to sell them the digital image, but it won’t be the same price as a print.

Bottom line, people are people, some will pay your price, some won’t, some will haggle, some won’t. I just stay firm with my prices; they can take it or leave it.

Peace

Your work will be valued only to the extent that you value it. If you think you're worth $50/hour for a commercial shoot, or that it's reasonable to shoot an 8 hour wedding for $500, including coverage, editing, and prints, then you will attract a clientele that is commensurate with your rates. Pricing this low tells me, the prospective client, that either (a) you are just starting out and don't believe in the value of your work, or (b) you are not serious about photography as a business. Neither of these are a good thing.

My services as a photographer cost good money because I have invested the time and money in learning how to take and edit photographs, to store them with multiple redundant backups, to display them online, to buy insurance for my gear so that your event will be covered without delay should disaster strike, to make prints that don't leave your grandmother's skin looking like she's been in the sun too long, amongst other things.

I charge more than Walmart does for a 5x7 print because I own the photo; you want a $0.20 cent print?? Go invest in quality gear and learn photography, and take the shot yourself. The sandwich analogy is apt; you are free to go out and make your own damn sandwich at home for $0.75, but if you're eating my sandwich in my coffee shop, that'll be $4.95.

This isn't arrogance. I'm not Chase Jarvis or Joe McNally, and I don't pretend to be. But I do value my time and have faith in my own abilities.

http://erroraccessdeni​ed.com …/270913946_efa3​8ec3d8.jpg

A.S.I.G.N. Observatory wrote in post #11793739
A question photographers are often asked and find themselves constantly having to justify or quantify, the answer. Many, if not all photographers have to put up with this.
Question: How much for a print?
Usual answer: $$$
Usual rebuttal: 1. Why would I pay for something I can do myself?
Usual counter rebuttal: 1. Have you ever paid for a sandwich or cup of coffee?

That counter rebuttal is stellar! I'll have to remember that next time my brother says the same thing.

Happy snapping!

Scatterbrained wrote in post #11801630
As has been stated, unless you were commissioned by a client to go there and get the shot you can't expect to bill for it. The market will decide the value of your work. However, you can set your prices and see what happens.
If you think you handle a lot of hagglers, you should try running an auto shop .
Not every customer that haggles should be passed over. This is one of the most annoying misconceptions I see with small business people. In many cultures it would be insulting not to try to haggle the merchant. Negotiating is called an art for a reason. I never pay full price for any of my larger purchases (obviously I don't try and haggle the gas station clerk for a few cents discount)
Try and remember these things:
Never be above working out a deal with a customer. If this means you have to price in a modest discount so be it. My wife and I buy all the art for our home at art shows and we always negotiate. If the artist isn't willing to work with us, we simply walk away. A savvy art buyer will never let you know what they can afford, they will make you feel like you are just out of reach, but they really want the piece.
Some people really are totally clueless. These people often don't mean any harm but are just totally clueless about art. Taking the time to educate them about your work may be rewarding for both of you. Try this for example: explain the composition of the piece, and why it was composed that way. Explain how certain elements of the piece are situated so that they compel the eye to move around the photo in a certain path. Then watch them look at the picture a second time and see that you are right. Give them some history of the shot and location. Tell them about the trip. Get them involved in the work. If they still don't see it as being worth more than a picture of the local park they snapped with their iPhone then at least you've tried. Learn to see these customers as education opportunities and not roadblocks.
Some people may see the value in the image but still not understand the cost. They get the cost of paint and sculpture but since they can buy their prints at Costco for far less they have a hard time justifying the expense. These people need to be sold on the value of the product as well as the value of the image itself. They may legitimately want the work but find it tough to justify the price. Bear in mind that people don't want to admit they can't afford something, and will instead try to rationalize why the product isn't worth the asking price (sometimes they're right).
Some customers just don't get it because they simply can't afford it. They may take a hostile attitude towards expensive luxury items as a means of validating themselves. (let's face it, photography is a luxury item) These people can be tough nuts to crack and may simply not be worth it, but I still would be as diplomatic as possible when handling them.
One thing to remember is that people often try to present a false image of who they are when they are buying. Poor people try to convince people they have more money than they do and wealthier people try to play poor. Just a few rambling thoughts.

When most people bargain for other things, they expect 10-20% off. When it comes to photography it seems like people want 50% + off.