people are just dumb...

I don't take it personally anymore. It's my business and I can't see waiting on ONE client to reply back to me. I got an email from the mother of the groom of a wedding I shot this summer. She wanted a CD of all the images, shot her a price, that was two weeks ago, she just got back to me and wanted it for the price i quoted.

Svetlana wrote in post #11805356
I understand you're in "I am building My Portfolio" stage...I like the photos on your Flickr, keep shooting!

One thing (well ONE OF the things) I learnt from Lawrence Chan at http://www.tofurious.c​om/ is how to deal with those who constantly ask for discounts, etc, and I suggest you read his blog posts thoroughly.

He also had a very good example of a fellow photographer named Sarah who was looking to built her portfolio, I suggest you read it, too.

I get people who think I still charge $150 with CD included from 4 years ago...ummm, no! They haven't booked me then, they won't book me now, so while I'm being polite with them and all, I just do not invest a lot of time in them...

Good luck!

Just looked at your website, Svetlana.
Great stuff! And so refreshing to see wedding/engagement shots where you seem to learn about the couple first, and then shoot 'personally'.
I see so many wedding photographers who use the same, tired "props" for their tired look-a-like wedding shoots.
Keep up the good work....

And at the OP:
①Click on Svetlana's link to her website.
②Get to that level after plenty of practice.
③Charge good money and don't look back.

Cheers for now.
Simon

skygod44 wrote in post #11804679
Her Dayne,

Sorry about the POTN members who didn't notice that you're deaf.
Of course, that means your language skills developed in a different way to most people.
Apologies, on their behalf.

Not to be an *******, but whether OP is deaf or not is no excuse for bad grammar. People inquiring aren't going to know he's deaf even if he advertises it all over the place...people simply don't read everything...and like me they're not going to associate deafness with the inability to type a coherent email. They're just going to get an email that sounds nonsensical and think "wow this guy's not too bright" no matter what their own grammar is like.

I don't know enough about deafness to know how it affects communication with the written word, but I do know that's something OP is going to have to overcome somehow.

I love ironic subject headings.

cdifoto wrote in post #11807156
Not to be an *******, but whether OP is deaf or not is no excuse for bad grammar. People inquiring aren't going to know he's deaf even if he advertises it all over the place...people simply don't read everything...and like me they're not going to associate deafness with the inability to type a coherent email. They're just going to get an email that sounds nonsensical and think "wow this guy's not too bright" no matter what their own grammar is like.

I don't know enough about deafness to know how it affects communication with the written word, but I do know that's something OP is going to have to overcome somehow.

This is 100% off-topic, but you need to do first-hand research on language acquisition in the early years for hearing-impaired people before making "statements" like the top one I've emboldened.
This is far too personal for the OP, IMO, to continue here. And the point of the thread is, I think, being dealt with now without more complaints about "poor grammar".
Regards,
Simon
[Who, as an Educational & Developmental Psychologist has done first-hand research at post-graduate level on hearing problems and its effect upon language skills]

skygod44 wrote in post #11807206
This is 100% off-topic, but you need to do first-hand research on language acquisition in the early years for hearing-impaired people before making "statements" like the top one I've emboldened.
This is far too personal for the OP, IMO, to continue here. And the point of the thread is, I think, being dealt with now without more complaints about "poor grammar".
Regards,
Simon
[Who, as an Educational & Developmental Psychologist has done first-hand research at post-graduate level on hearing problems and its effect upon language skills]

I'm referring to the client's perspective, not a developmental expert's scientific viewpoint. The average person is like me...they don't know. They'll simply get an incoherent email back and think a moron replied. Very few people want to work with a moron. I'm not saying it's morally right, but it's reality. People pay other people to do things because they're an expert at it, and if you don't communicate in a way that makes it clear that you know what you're doing, they will think you're not an expert.

It's business, not personal. Taking offense and not addressing problems in a meaningful way aren't going to help the business. Maybe the solution is to apologize in advance in every initial email response is the answer, so the client knows what's going on. I don't know. The point is, you need to sound intelligent and professional in your communications. You can take as long as you need to write an email. You wouldn't believe how many revisions some of mine get...and I'm NOT deaf.

cdifoto wrote in post #11807238
I'm referring to the client's perspective, not a developmental expert's scientific viewpoint. The average person is like me...they don't know. They just get an incoherent email back and think a moron replied.
It's business, not personal. Taking offense and not addressing problems in a meaningful way aren't going to help the business.

I get your point. But whether you think so or not, it is personal.

But, I agree that the OP must improve in the arena of English grammar, but a relatively new photographer has a long way to go before he's worried about "clients' perspectives".

And members focusing immediately on poor grammar within a few lines in an internet forum aren't even bothering to think about his issue. That's the beginning of simply "picking on" someone, as far as I'm concerned...which we simply don't need.
Thus the "apology", whether the OP noticed/was bothered, or not.

EDIT: That was sneaky! You edited your last post while I was responding!!!!
Well, I still maintain that correct grammar will be vital, but we don't need to focus on it when it's not the OP's initial line of questioning.

No, it's not personal. That's where a lot of people get into trouble. They take business personally. It's good when things go smoothly, but the negative aspects really hit that person hard. A good business person doesn't take it personally at all...they separate themselves emotionally from it. I don't mean the photography itself. You want to love what you do, but the administrative part...getting clients, dealing with negativity toward pricing, skepticism, etc...that's not to be taken personally even if the supposed client/prospect is intending it to be personal. Easier said than done, I know.

Relatively new learning photography? Yes, he has a long way to go. Relatively new learning business? No, he needs to worry about it now.

True indeed. I don't bash someone who's native language isn't English, but if they're communicating in that language, they usually apologize so the other person "gets it."

cdifoto wrote in post #11807294
No, it's not personal.

Hate to sound like a quote from a movie, but that just means it's not personal to you. And you're still focusing on the OP's errors while pushing your point across, and ignoring the initial problem.
SO, what's your answer to his gripe?
And, since the OP is from Trinidad and Tobago (take the time to click once on his "Facebook" link and you can see that) where the English has a local 'twist' - what you and I call English differs from his version - I don't see that any of the complaints are valid at all.
Yes, he'll have to work 10x harder if he wants to "make it" in the USA, but that's up to him.
We can push in the right direction, but he's only young and distancing oneself emotionally takes time, maturity and a certain amount of failure.

I think the best advice so far is simply to "not worry" about anyone who thinks $40 is expensive.

skygod44 wrote in post #11807326
Hate to sound like a quote from a movie, but that just means it's not personal to you. And you're still focusing on the OP's errors while pushing your point across, and ignoring the initial problem.
SO, what's your answer to his gripe?
And, since the OP is from Trinidad and Tobago (take the time to click once on his "Facebook" link and you can see that) where the English has a local 'twist' - what you and I call English differs from his version - I don't see that any of the complaints are valid at all.
Yes, he'll have to work 10x harder if he wants to "make it" in the USA, but that's up to him.
We can push in the right direction, but he's only young and distancing oneself emotionally takes time, maturity and a certain amount of failure.


I think the best advice so far is simply to "not worry" about anyone who thinks $40 is expensive.

Since $40 is a pretty darn low amount, we can almost guarantee "too expensive" isn't the issue here.

We don't really know what the OP's problem is, but communication is a VERY important variable that must be ruled out.

I've booked and lost clients based on what I say and/or how I say it. That's how critical it is.

I initially brushed over the grammar issue because I figured he was typing with his thumbs, and because this is just an internet forum.

However, if it's being proposed that deafness excuses poor grammar in written business communications, I know two deaf people who are also executives in a local Fortune 50 company who would consider that offensively patronizing.

RDKirk wrote in post #11807365
I initially brushed over the grammar issue because I figured he was typing with his thumbs, and because this is just an internet forum.

However, if it's being proposed that deafness excuses poor grammar in written business communications, I know two deaf people who are also executives in a local Fortune 50 company who would consider that offensively patronizing.

It doesn't "excuse" poor grammar. And a kid from Trinidad & Tobago has, perhaps, had a different upbringing to your friends.
My WHOLE point was that members commenting on poor grammar while ignoring his question is against site rules, irrespective of whether he's wanting to become a top pro' or simply understand how to start a business.
So, purrrr-lease(!) can we move on from this and simply help the OP with some early business-plans and how to improve his technique?

I'll say this much...

As the OP is deaf I would imagine that this would probably inhibit some means of communication with potential clients... Say for example over the telephone. Written communication skills are going to probably play a large part in the sales process with clients. Writing coherently and effectively will be very important (perhaps more so than normal). cdifoto may be a little abrupt but makes valid points.

With regards the OP's original post... emails don't always arrive due to the Internet pixies, spam filters often grab hold of legitimate emails, Facebook accounts aren't always checked. Forget about it and move on.

Good to see some sense coming into the thread...though after all the action up there, where's the OP?


https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?p=353304
The way I read it, any more comments on the OP's grammar is simply headed "Don't be a jerk" in the above link.

So, back to helping, and I'll add that you (the OP) could perhaps join a class?
That would give you plenty of help with starting a photo business - even if it's small at first - and photo techniques.
And you could meet some like-minded people too!

I'm not being a jerk. I'm not insulting. I'm telling it like it is...business communication needs to be professional. Period. If your grammar is bad, it needs fixed to be considered professional.

The thing about grammar is that there is indeed a quantifiable "good" and "bad" about it. Languages have accepted structure. Telling someone their communication is potentially damaging their business isn't being a jerk..it's being honest...and helpful. Whether you want to face that is up to you.

You focus on the photographic technique as being the problem. Maybe it is, but that's only one small part of running a photography business...which includes getting the prospect to become a customer in the first place.

ETA: I wouldn't be so focused on the communication angle if you didn't imply that it's excusable, acceptable, or a non-issue.