Help! print to warm and dark

Can anyone please help.
I purchased a Toshiba P300 Satellite Pro Laptop with a ATI Mobilility Radeon HD3470 Graphics Card running with Windows 7 Pro and Adobe Photoshop CS4, to carry out my photo editing. I sent away my first set of prints to the lab but they came out over saturated and very dark and so I tried to read up on colour spaces, monitor profiling and work flow. After reading so much conflicting information and many paracetamols later I purchased a Huey Pro monitor calibrator and replaced the aging CRT monitor on my desktop with an Acer H233HQ 1080p LCD Monitor. Having been told that the problem was the unsuitability of laptop monitors for colour work, I use the monitor hooked up as an alternative display for my laptop. Suprisingly, the images all looked ok (and broadly the same) on the laptop, the CRT and the LCD screens, so I contacted the photo lab for help.
It was suggested that I change my workflow, set all of my graphics settings to the factory defaults, clear out all profiles and try a further set of prints. This gave a marginally improved print but they still have a red/yellow colour cast, and look too warm and dark. I know that LCD’s will always have a brighter backlit image, but I cannot get the colours right. I have installed Argyll and DispcalGUI software and calibrated the monitor on the laptop, the laptop with the LCD and the desk top and LCD and all images look broadly the same on all set ups. No matter what I do, the image on the screen is not as warm or yellow nor as dark as the print. I have sent prints to different printers and they all come back pretty much the same. The lab has been patient and helpful, but can’t make any further suggestions.


The photo is saved as raw with an SRGB profile on the camera. I open the image, edit it and save as a JPG with an SRGB Profile at 300dpi. A duplicate of the print is converted to the printers Fuji profile, saved and sent to the printers. There is seldom a significant change in how the image appears. I have tried an alternative printer who asks for files in an SRGB profile and they all look pretty much the same.


I recently found there was a problem with the batch of Huey Pro’s that I bought and have had it replaced by Pantone. The Huey software says my monitor is profiled, but in truth when the monitor has been profiled using the Huey Pro the colours on the screen look warmer and more pleasing (accurate?) than the unprofiled monitor but still no where as warm nor as dark as the prints I am getting. I have installed Argyll and DispcalGUI software and calibrated the monitor on the laptop, the laptop with the LCD and the desk top and LCD and all images look broadly the same on all set ups. No matter what I do, the image on the screen is not as warm or yellow nor as dark as the print. I have sent prints to different printers and they all come back pretty much the same. The lab has been patient and helpful, but can’t make any further suggestions.


Where am I going wrong. I just can’t seem to get rid of this colour cast and a get reasonable (workable!!!) match in brightness. Could the files be corrupt? I just don’t understand how an image can look the same on various different computers but the prints look vastly different?

Please post one of your JPGs.

And unfortunately, the Acer monitor you purchased is almost as unsuitable as the laptop display.

And what do you have set as your working RGB color space in Photoshop's color settings?

I have attached a couple of images.
These were edited in PS and then finally converted to profile and sent to the printer. The prints came back too dark and too warm as usual.

I have tried viewing the images on other monitors (including CRT) and they look broadly the same, they just print wildly different to the image I see.

I accept that my monitor is not the best but I, like many others, have limited budgets to work to and cannot afford the apple route. Many of my peers seem to be using poorer quality monitors than mine, but do not seem to be having the same issues.

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Images have no embedded profile, so it's anybody's guess how they look on your screen.
FWIW: In Safari, (using an "emulate sRGB" monitor profile on my wide gamut screen,) they look slightly warm.

This is what my manually calibrated monitor would lead me to.
(I'm assuming that you just missed the Enable image editing option in your profile.)

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I was going to ask the OP to turn on IMAGE EDITING as to allow the reposting of some correction attempts so he could compare. So far WB seems to be a major part of the problem, The first image is under exposed due to the very bright background and seems to have a crossing cast. There is allot of red and I am picking up blue in the creatures white fer. The second image is also red. With no attached profile I guess it's hard to guess what it might look like after the OP's corrections

Maybe starting with a known standard print will help to zero in to the problem.
Test images for printing and lens resolution

PDI_Target_AdobeRGB.jp​g test files at the bottom of: http://www.gballard.ne​t/psd/srgbforwww.html

Be sure the one you use is sRGB instead of aRGB or CMYK.

PhotosGuy wrote in post #11808420
Maybe starting with a known standard print will help to zero in to the problem.

+++1

Yep... Take your image capture and editing out of the loop.

Thanks for all the replies

I have turned on the edititing option (didn't realise I needed to), but I am a little unclear about the standard print bit. I have downloaded the Fuiji test print from the Printers site (and also from the CD they sent me with the printer profiles) and printed off copies from various online print shops. I cannot get an exact match from what I am seeing on the screen to what I am seeing on the print. This is the cusp of my problem. The calibration software says the monitor is calibrated and the white point and black point seem to be close to what the software is looking for, but the prints are too dark and too warm (oversaturated).

I know that the two prints above need some work on the colour and/or white balance, but what I am looking at looks ok (ish). Ok, Agedbriars is better, but on the screen they all look acceptable. However the prints of these from the print house need you to shine a torch on them to see them (bit of an exageration).

Subscribed! Similar issue but not as much..

Windward wrote in post #11808985
...I am a little unclear about the standard print bit.

Until you get your system properly calibrated and your color managed print workflow under control you want to work from a standardized test image of known quality.

If you cut a length of wood and say "That looks like about a meter to me", it doesn't have the precision of an actual ruler.

Windward wrote in post #11808985
need you to shine a torch on them to see them (bit of an exageration).

What light are you viewing the prints in?

I understand what you are saying, but what I cannot seem to sort out is the calibration I guess. I have used the standardized image from Fuji and know it displays differently to the printed output. The printed output from my machine using the Fuji file is the same as the printed output from the file direct from the printers, so my image capture, editing and print workflow are out of the loop.

If I use the eye dropper on the test image I get 255,255,255 on white, 0,0,0 on black, 254,0,0 on red 0,254,1 on green and 1,0,254 on Blue. so whilst not a hundred percent, not far out. But the colours on the screen are not what I see on the print. So it is not an editing issue.

I have used the Huey pro calorimeter and the argyll software and the white and black points seem within tolerances (as far as a novice like me can tell). I know that this kit is at the cheaper end of the market, but I am looking for reasonable results within a tight budget. I am not looking for colour matching to the nth degree and will (may) be able to purchase more professional gear once I have made my fortune, but all I want at the moment is a print that is close to what I edit and view on the screen.
I know that LCD monitors are back lit and the image on screen may be brighter than the printed copy, but my prints are wildly out and lots of people seem to manage to get closer results than mine (without going to the expense of a Mac and hugely expensive CRT monitor which I just can't afford).

I have tried to keep the screen and ambient conditions as dark as possible and I and constructing a boot for the monitor. I will buy a day light lamp, but at the moment I have to use normal lightling or hold the print up to daylight whilst sheilding the screen.

Windward wrote in post #11809170
I have used the standardized image from Fuji and know it displays differently to the printed output.

Actually, the print should be pretty close to a softproof. (disregarding that they are different media).

In the first post you say "There is seldom a significant change in how the image appears". Do you mean when converting to the printers profile? I'd imagine that there would be a visible change if an image contained saturated colors.

Windward wrote in post #11809170
But the colours on the screen are not what I see on the print. So it is not an editing issue.

I've tested my setup using the Outback Print test image (in the first link you got), and the softproof on my CRT matched the print pretty damn close.

What exactly do you see?

Does white look white & black, black?
Do you see all steps in a gray wedge? (is the difference between (0,0,0) and (10,10,10) visible for instance?
Is a gray wedge neutral?
etc.

Windward wrote in post #11809170
I have used the Huey pro calorimeter and the argyll software and the white and black points seem within tolerances (as far as a novice like me can tell).

What values?

Windward wrote in post #11809170
I know that this kit is at the cheaper end of the market, but I am looking for reasonable results within a tight budget.

Should be possible IMO.

View your prints in good daylight or something similar..